Oxalic Acid

[jimmiestan]

We're about to sublimate OA soon [per David the apiarist advice] but I am aware, from dealing with rather crazy nuclear scientists, that inhalation is very different from ingestion. I believe inhalation of oxalic acid vpaour or sublimate is the main problem?

 

[Swarm]

We're about to sublimate OA soon [per David the apiarist advice] but I am aware, from dealing with rather crazy nuclear scientists, that inhalation is very different from ingestion. I believe inhalation of oxalic acid vpaour or sublimate is the main problem?

Plus skin contact, especially your eyes.

 

[JamezF]

whatever - the fact is, Oxalic acid (not rhubarb) is toxic and has been recognised as such by the powers that be, and it's toxicity is such that it warrants being listed on the poisons list in the same section as arsenic, cyanide and mercury. So nick Lang's assertion that OA is not toxic is untrue and dangerously misleading

Yes, I'm not going to deny that it's place on a list of poisons is warranted. If you start using it in your tea instead of sugar, that's really not going to end well.

James

 

[philat98]

I am trying out Randy Oliver's extended release OA strips that I have prepared myself. I am curious to see how they perform.

 

[Erichalfbee]

How long will you keep them in for?

 

[philat98]

I will leave them 60days. It is still warm at the end of October.

 

[Teilo Sant]

What is the essential difference between using API-BIOXAL, and oxalic acid crystals 99.5% in a vaporiser?

 

[user 819]

The former will cake up the receptical for administering the product also it is the legal bereaucratic route.

 

[Erichalfbee]

And more expensive.
The oxalic does the trick
The additives in Apibioxal make it a licensed treatment

 

[ericbeaumont]

difference between using API-BIOXAL, and oxalic acid crystals 99.5% in a vaporiser?

No difference at all in the OA of both products, but ApiBioxal has added sugar & silica which caramelises in the vapouriser pan and must be scraped out with cursing and fiddling.

OA is the pure product; ApiBioxal is far more expensive and licensed by the VMD for use on honeybees; Chemicals Laif paid to gain product approval and were supported by the BBKA (thanks a bunch).

Plain, cheap and effective OA is used legally in much of Europe, the US and elsewhere (post 23) but nobody has the will to change the UK regs nor pay to gain UK product approval. Having imposed the legislation the VMD have (so far) failed to prosecute a beekeeper for using plain OA, and a legal test case would be the only way to settle the matter.

In other words, the law is a ass*.

* The law is an ass is a derisive expression said when the the rigid application of the letter of the law is seen to be contrary to common sense. The phrase appeared in Oliver Twist and was quoted by Mr Bumble, who dropped an n.

 

[user 819]

To keep your records straight officially one is meant to use a batch number in the hive records , use OA but have a small pack of AB as well and use 10% AB with your OA and enter the AB batch number to show you have used AB. That way less caking up occurs.

 

[Teilo Sant]

Many thanks for the helpful information.

 

[Newbeeneil]

I seem to remember that you can only sublimate ApiBioxal once per season?

 

[blackcloud]

That was for trickling it.
I hope - (mine get nine doses a year as an absolute minimum......)

 

[JamezF]

That was for trickling it.
I hope - (mine get nine doses a year as an absolute minimum......)

My recollection is that Neil is correct: vape is once, trickle is twice. Though the instructions don't say whether those are mutually exclusive I don't think, so possibly it would be consistent with the instructions to vape once and to trickle twice in a season, even if that wasn't the intent.

James

 

[Newbeeneil]

My recollection is that Neil is correct: vape is once, trickle is twice. Though the instructions don't say whether those are mutually exclusive I don't think, so possibly it would be consistent with the instructions to vape once and to trickle twice in a season, even if that wasn't the intent.

James

A quotation from the Apiarist

“API-Bioxal approved methods of administration

The instructions for API-Bioxal clearly state that only a single treatment by vaporisation is approved per year. The exact wording is:

Maximal dose 2.3g per hive as a single administration. One treatment per year.


In contrast, when used as a solution for trickling the instructions state:

Up to two treatments per year (winter and/or spring-summer season in brood-free colonies).”

 

[polymath]

UK VMD approval is once a year.

Of course i could never recommend more, but would highlight that the research done by Ratnieks at LASI was two treatments 5 - 10 day apart for maximum effect and that in the US where there is no broodless period that i have heard of four treatments being done every 5 days.

Key is to do it when broodless, in the SE of England this was proven in research to be around mid December, my personal view is that applies nationally as the bees work to length of day more than outside temp.

 

[Murox]

UK VMD approval is once a year.

............................ but would highlight that the research done by Ratnieks at LASI was two treatments 5 - 10 day apart for maximum effect and that in the US where there is no broodless period that i have heard of four treatments being done every 5 days................................

Seems to work for much of the world generally. Has Ratnieks published anything more up to date??

 

[blackcloud]

I'm keeping to my regime.
Bought in bulk there's no restrictions on the label....

 

[Murox]

Looks as though the price of treating for varroa just went through the roof. This is from Bee Equipment Ltd, Canterbury.

“Let me start this, with the short history of Beekeeping Equipment. I started as a beekeeper nearly 22 years ago, with two hives, then 4 or 5 years later, a colleague from my local association became ill and I was asked to take over the distribution of equipment locally. Happy to do this, I soon became amazed at the poor level of both service and manufactured products from the major suppliers.

I decided to look further afield and soon became the UK distributor for Mann Lake and this developed into them taking over my comparatively tiny company. Unfortunately, when the Brexit vote was made to leave the EU, Mann Lake emailed me on June 27th 2016 to say they would be closing the UK “Branch” on July 1st 2016.
I had staff, buildings and responsibilities at this point. I decided that although I had announced to my staff the decision by Mann Lake to close, I could see the sadness in their faces and decided to carry on.
I injected considerable personal money to buy the stock and equipment from Mann Lake and the rest is relatively known……….although not exactly.

In so many areas, we as a company and myself personally have had false stories circulated around, sometimes just plain damn lies, but we take it on the chin having been in business for over 50 years and being a professional. I still hold onto my core principles of doing business fairly, suppliers earn their profit and we sell and earn ours. We have definitely shaken things up, lowered prices and that’s what our competitors do not like.
To the subject at hand, we have been disadvantaged so many times and we have almost got used to it, except this time it’s more serious. This time it is about a honeybee health product.

Chemical Laif decided a few weeks ago that they would appoint a UK distributor for their Apibioxal product. For those who do not know it, it is basically Oxalic acid crystals in a 35gm pouch (and larger sizes). It is licensed by the VMD to help with varroa mite control, prior to this we used Oxalic crystals and liquid effectively.
The distributor for Chemical Laif has now decided they will not supply us, because they want us to sell the product at £14.10, however, we want our resell price to be listed at £12.40, at time of writing this, we currently have the 35g pouch on sale at £11.28. Because of this decision, they will not supply us and Chemical Laif support them.
This is nothing less than a Cartel and price fixing, both illegal in UK and EU. The product cost us (before the distributorship announcement)€7.20 around £6.00 per 35gm packet. After the distribution agreement, we now pay £10.50 this includes the distributors markup, not a bad mark up.

Of course, this sounds like sour grapes but we have a point, these types of stitch up’s have been going on for years. Now we realise that cartels operate, not just for this product.

At this point I should say, I encourage all beekeepers to go back to oxalic crystals as a hive cleaner, a much cheaper product, but I cannot.

You will see that I have made representation to Chemical Laif and informed the competitions and Markets authority.
https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/competition-and-markets-authority

I would encourage all concerned beekeepers in both the UK and Europe to do the same.
https://competition-policy.ec.europa.eu/whistleblower_en”