Natural beekeeping on countryfile

[Chris Luck]

N'importe quoi.

Chris

 

[charlievictorbravo]

Sacrebleu!

 

[victor meldrew]

Do that when the bee inspector comes and you'll never see them again.

You haven't met my bee inspector duckie
VM

 

[Chris Luck]

You haven't met my bee inspector duckie

I'm sure they are simply divine just as I imagine you are really.

Chris

 

[itma]

So to cut the crap, there is no requirement in the UK to register possession of bees and hives unlike France and there is no right to inspect without a warrant from a court of law in the UK.

...

Sorry Chris but that *is* crap.

What legal powers do Fera Bee Inspectors have?


Fera Bee Inspectors and other appointed authorised persons under the Bees Act 1980, the Bee Diseases Control Order 1982 (recently replaced by the Bee Diseases and Pests Control Order 2006) and the Animal and Animal products (Import and Export) regulations. This gives them authority to:
Enter premises where it is believed bees, hives, appliances and bee products are kept.
Examine these items and to take samples of them in order to see that they are free from infection.
Mark any hive or appliance for identification purposes
Destroy colonies infected with American foul brood or European foul brood
Treat colonies infected with European foul brood

From https://secure.fera.defra.gov.uk/beebase/index.cfm?pageid=106

There is no requirement for a warrant.
They can enter premises if they have reason to believe any bee-stuff (or bees) are being kept there. Looks like they have the authority to make an entry if they believe you have a jar of honey in the larder ...

 

[Chris Luck]

Well ITMA you best take that up with ChrisB.

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=283086&postcount=34

It was his information and it makes sense.

Even with increasingly authoritarian States everywhere I find that incredible and I doubt that in practice it occurs.

Chris

 

[victor meldrew]

Well ITMA you best take that up with ChrisB.

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=283086&postcount=34

It was his information and it makes sense.

Even with increasingly authoritarian States everywhere I find that incredible and I doubt that in practice it occurs.

Chris

I had a friend (alas no longer with us ) who challenged the inspectorate years ago . Being a complete pedant ,he challenged the wording and got the then top authority to admit that the way the then act was written mean't that the inspectorate whilst having the authority to inspect didn't have the authority to handle a live colony of bees !!. Therefore he demanded that the inspector stand at his shoulder , he would lift out each frame for inspection and shake off the bees when told to .
I kid you not .
This of course was way before any of the current legislation was drawn up
VM

 

[domino]

Even with increasingly authoritarian States everywhere I find that incredible and I doubt that in practice it occurs.

You'd be surprised how many organisations have rights to entry under a statutory instrument. For example British Gas can break into your house if they detect a gas leak.

 

[Chris Luck]

Interesting because that's exactly how it's done here and rightfully so in my view. I open any agreed hive, I use my tools and the "inspector" takes frames that I take out. Greatly reduced chances of the spread of any disease that many of you are so concerned about and once again rightfully so as AFB here is reckoned to be a spread by bee keepers.

It really needs to be understood that it is just another bee keeper that may or may not be "better qualified" in the general sense of the word than you or me, they just happen to have put themselves forward. As it turns out I happen to know quite a bit that the local inspector was unaware of and of course he knows more about what is going on around and about.

Chris

 

[itma]

Well ITMA you best take that up with ChrisB.

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=283086&postcount=34

It was his information and it makes sense.

Even with increasingly authoritarian States everywhere I find that incredible and I doubt that in practice it occurs.

Sense and the Law don't have to go together!

Here's part of the UK Law
The Bee Diseases and Pests Control (England) Order 2006, Section 12

Provision of facilities and other obligations

12.—(1) The owner or person in charge of any hive, bees, combs, bee products or appliances and the owner or occupier of any premises and the owner or person in charge of any vehicle on or in which there is suspected to be a notifiable pest shall—

(a)make available all such facilities, and
(b)give such information (including information concerning the number, location and any movements of hives, bees, combs, bee products or appliances that are or have been in his possession or charge and information concerning the location of any bee pests on the premises or vehicle),
to an authorised person as that authorised person shall reasonably require for the purposes of this Order.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2006/342/article/12/made

Thus, it is against the law to refuse access to bees, etc to an "authorised person" (an Inspector is one), having a suspicion of a "notifiable pest".

 

[WelshPaul]

Getting back on track, but seriously, this woman seems like a *****

 

[Hivemaker.]

Thus, it is against the law to refuse access to bees, etc to an "authorised person" (an Inspector is one), having a suspicion of a "notifiable pest".

It is my understanding that the bee inspectors have more power to carry out their particular job with regards entry ect than the police would have.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Getting back on track, but seriously, this woman seems like a *****

Edited.

 

[Chris Luck]

I think they would need a good justification for their suspicion if required to do so just as a member of the police or the gas supply company would.

Anyway, even in the UK surely a bee inspector wouldn't be that rude, especially as in France where people are world renowned for their rudeness the bee inspector I have is very friendly.

Little of this has anything to do with successful keeping of healthy bees which it appears few if any wish to consider, just the usual mindless mocking of anything different or a bit fringe.

Chris

 

[Chris B]

Thus, it is against the law to refuse access to bees, etc to an "authorised person" (an Inspector is one), having a suspicion of a "notifiable pest".

That's what I originally said i.e. they only have authority IF there is a suspicion. Without that suspicion they have no authority and would need either permission from the beekeeper or a warrant.

The text you found on the Fera website does not have the force of law - they cannot enter anywhere just because bee stuff is there.

Hivemakers point about bee inspectors having more power than the police - perhaps some bee inspectors believe this but the law doesn't actually support this. (You could say it's without foundation - just like natural beekeepers. )

 

[domino]

Hivemakers point about bee inspectors having more power than the police - perhaps some bee inspectors believe this but the law doesn't actually support this. (You could say it's without foundation - just like natural beekeepers. )

They have a legal right to enter a premise under the conditions set out without a warrant. Their are many organisations and groups that can do this.

 

[Chris B]

They have a legal right to enter a premise under the conditions set out without a warrant. Their are many organisations and groups that can do this.

I don't disagree. There are conditions. Most of the time those conditions are not met so they are acting purely with permission from the beekeeper.

 

[For want of a better word]

You'd be surprised how many organisations have rights to entry under a statutory instrument. For example British Gas can break into your house if they detect a gas leak.

In a previous life as a Master Locksmith I was contracted by the then British Gas to access properties under the GAS ACT... the Englishmans house is certainly not his Castle,

Customs officers can also "inspect" without warrant... and would be allowed to call in specialists to help them... Bee Inspectors included.
French Law is probably totally different... I have no intention whatsoever of keeping bees in France... Brittany Ferries would not be reliable enough!

 

[Chris Luck]

I can assure you canhopit, you wouldn't want to either keep bees or live in France, overall it's a far more repressive country than the UK, the only thing good about it is the price of land and usually the climate in summer....

....oh and the wildlife for now.

Chris

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

It is my understanding that the bee inspectors have more power to carry out their particular job with regards entry ect than the police would have.

True - the wording of the act is the same as CEMA - which I have worked under for 25 or so years - powers of entry/inspection etc the need to swear a warrant is only in certain cases - some to do with time of day so as to powers of entry, like Customs officers they have more powers than the police (but only in pursuit of assigned matters)
We also have powers of search (baggage and persons) and detention without arrest or magistrates warrant, but hey, lets get back to discussing loony beekeeping