Natural beekeeping on countryfile

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Well, having not seen the post as to where the bee stressing item was I have had to sit through most of an episode of countryfile (another 40 odd minutes of my life wasted :banghead: ) and rather like the 'hives' - what a load of sh1t. But then in the spirit of diversity they're harming nobody (until the bees swarm) but themselves so let them ramble on in their own little version of cuckoo land.

More to the point shouldn't the whole of countryfile be reported to trades description - the bee article just fits in with the rest of the programmes airy fairy fluffy wonderland vision of British rural life. Nothing to do with the country (a few too many leters in the programmes title methinks but :sorry: that's me being a bit rude) They'll be promoting vegetarianism next!!:rant:
 
I can assure you canhopit, you wouldn't want to either keep bees or live in France,
Chris

:iagree::iagree:

I mean - french language schools, conversing in their own language in shops and bars, roadsigns in French can you believe it?:D

Bout time they were given another good drubbing - it was Trafalgar day Sunday after all :unionsmilie:
 
It is my understanding that the bee inspectors have more power to carry out their particular job with regards entry ect than the police would have.

If you want to see someone with powers of entry try HMRC I know I wouldn't.
 
same thing now - Brown chopped up a fine service and put us in with Inland revenue (thus HMRC) he then realised he'd made a booboo and the front line enforcement anti drugs etc. staff were chucked in with Immigration front liners (UK border force) our powers are still under Customs and Excise management Act though but yes, I am one of the maritime enforcement officers to use our old name. But we really are nice people you know:)
 
Do any airport work?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHZISoNlqAA"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHZISoNlqAA[/ame]
 
Well - I'm a new beekeeper - indeed, I can't even call myself a beekeeper yet as I won't actually have my bees until Spring ..and in the presence of beekeepers of many years standing, massive experience and hundreds, if not thousands, of posts on forums I stand in awe and respect of this assembled congregation.

I'm a member of this and other bee forums and I've spent the last two years or so reading just about everything there is to read about bees, both on the web and in print in readiness for my start in keeping bees. My hive is a Top Bar and I'm going to try and follow the 'natural' style of beekeeping as far as is practical and possible - I'd like to think that my decision to go down this route is the result of thorough, open minded and pragmatic research. I'm a 16 stone, ex rugby playing, beer drinking BLOKE - I've never drunk camomile tea and I don't exactly look fetching in floaty dresses (and no - I wouldn't go near a hive, at present, without a bee suit) but I don't consider myself as anything other than rational, logical and in no way eccentric.

There are many beekeepers, natural and conventional, who are able to work with their bees without PPE - understanding and observing their their bees and instinctively knowing when PPE IS required and when they can open their hives without fear of a reaction from the bees. In the circumstances shown on Countryfile (I saw the programme at the time) with lighting, camera, sound crews and a presenter who was, obviously, uncomfortable with the proximity of bees there was every likelihood that the bees WOULD react - and JB probably didn't help by flapping her hands about once a bee got in her hair - if she had been able to remain calm she may not have been stung.

That this TV program has promoted so much condemnation of Heidi Hermann, her methods and her variety of Sun Hive is, however, extraordinary and frankly disconcerting - particularly to me - new to the beekeeping fraternity (and that's a massive misnomer as there appears to be little fraternisation in some quarters of beeks). The comments are even directed on a more general basis to, it seems, ALL natural beekeepers - and I suppose that means me as well ? - one of the worlds moderate people !

I am constantly disappointed at the apparent chasm between 'natural' and 'conventional' beekeepers - there are beeks on both sides of the divide taking up bigotted and aggressive positions with, it appears to me, little knowledge of or the desire to understand the methodology or viewpoint of the other side.

There is, undeniably, a problem with our bee population - it is shrinking - some may say the bee population is in crisis. To deny this situation is as ridiculous as stating that the earth is flat and was made in seven days. Whether the current situation with bees is the result of disease, parasites, climate, interbreeding, globalisation, chemical intervention, pesticides or the way bees have been kept since Langstroth, is a debate that continues and is yet to reach an agreed conclusion.

The declining or disappearing bee population may be a combination of all these factors - but, bees managed to exist for millions of years, surviving changing climate, natural calamities and primitive man until modern man started to put his influence on the planet - and the last 100 years have clearly been the period during which we humans have had the most influence on our natural environment. So ... somehow WE are to blame - it ain't the bees fault !

For ANY beekeeper to state 'my hive's fine' is a bit 'I'm alright jack' - you just continue fiddling while Rome burns ! The problem is that bees cannot be entirely restricted to remain in your 'posession' so your fine bees one day may not be there the next - there are plenty of instances on this forum where bees have simply gone ... or rapidly died off - with no rational explanation.

I'm not a peace loving, tree hugging, bohemian nomad - I'm a rational, 62 year old former company director and if I can see that there is a problem then it must be blindingly obvious to anyone and certainly to those with far more experience and knowledge than me !

I recognise that some of the ideas and designs put forward by 'natural' beekeepers may be radical (occasionally outlandish) and Heidi Hermann's hives come into this category - but she (and a growing number of other natural beekeepers) are trying to find alternative methods that may, in the longer term, provide different ways which ALL beekeepers can find of benefit and subscribe to. Their efforts should be applauded or, at the very least, tolerated or are we just going to try and find more chemicals as the parasites and disease organisms explore their Darwinian right to develop immunity to the latest drug ?

To categorise all natural beekeepers as the 'Potty Fringe' and a danger to beekeeping in general is very disparaging and frankly uneccessary. There are natural beekeepers that are seeing positive results - Visit Phil Chandler's Barefoot Beekeeper site or Michael Bush's web pages before condemning natural methods out of hand and go further there are lots of web sites now appearing under a Google search for Natural Beekeeking - if you are still in need of conviction then read Ross Conrad's book on Natural Beekeeping.

However, there are equally polarised and opposite views found in 'natural' beekeeping forums where there exists a number of 'natural' beeks who cannot see ANY good in ANY conventional methods. As my grandmother used to say 'they all need their heads banging together'.

For goodness sake all of you .... we are all going in the same direction - we want healthy bees, free from parasites, in hive environments that the bees can be happy and comfortable in. Ultimately to produce some honey for our own consumption and pollinate our farms, gardens and countryside.

You have only to look at the change in the last few years in chicken farming - whilst I would never liken any beekeeping to battery hen conditions the reality is that the methods of intensive chicken farming have now been modified and the main consumer demand in the UK is for eggs that are free range. Even Mr Kipling has free range eggs in his products ! I keep a few ex-battery rescue hens in my garden and I can tell you that after a few weeks the sad looking, featherless, drug ridden, barely mobile hens that we rescued changed in appearance, mobility, personality and egg production - because I house, feed and treat them in a way that they would live in a natural world. Their eggs bear no resemblance to intensively farmed eggs in appearance or taste.

Perhaps in the future there will need to be changes to beekeeping, the world changes, We change and perhaps the bees are telling us that they need a change ? As I said earlier - we are all heading in the same direction so, please, let's see a bit more tolerance of opinions and practices that we may not share as our own. There may be a middle ground if we look a bit further over the divide. I, for one, am determined to remain open minded and whilst my hopes are for a natural beekeeping regime in my hives I can see that there may be situations where only conventional methods or chemical intervention will work. I treat my dog homeopathically most of the time and he's very fit - but if he needed antibiotics then I wouldn't hesitate to resort to them.

Come on ... no more of this antagonistic attitude please.
 
There is, undeniably, a problem with our bee population - it is shrinking - some may say the bee population is in crisis.

I don't really agree with this part,well not in this country, there has been a massive increase in the number of people taking up beekeeping in the last three or four years, and no doubt they all have bees,some of them several hives. And the bee breeders/suppliers have been working flat out to supply this demand.
Colony numbers can be increased at a very fast rate if the demand is there.....seen the plan for 100 colonies to 1000 in three months.
 
:iagree:

The dwindling bee population is a myth. The only stats readily available are the beekeeper population and anything quoted in the media relate directly to this or else only to winter losses which are no measure of the bee population at all. The overused favourite "the bee population has halved in the last 20 years" is hardly ever attributed to the source which was actually a study carried out by Reading Uni. which reported the beekeeper population had halved between 1985 and 2005 but the average number of colonies per beekeeper was the same.

The truth about "natural" beekeeping is it has it's place and yes the bees do often thrive just like they do in framed hives, chimneys, trees, compost bins, and even an old chest of drawers in somebody's front garden on our local council estate. They are tough and versatile.
 
Sorry Chris, can't resist it - "and yes the bees do often thrive in old fashioned regimens, and survive intrusive inspections, drone culling, being presented with unnatural foundation, having their queens marked, clipped and replaced, having their natural swarming instincts subverted, and being doused with various toxic nostrums They are tough and versatile"
 
pargyle,

I am in broad agreement with you. But to be called a natural beekeeper is just plain utter trash.

There is nothing natural at all in beekeeping - it is man-made just as everything else meddled with by humans.

Setting themselves up as holier-than-thou on their little pedestal and looking down on the rest is attempted elitism.

They are little different than many of the rest of us who do not farm the bees for the absoloute last scrap of honey, as some must - for a living.

Look at them a little more closely.

Naturally, colonies would be about 200m apart or more on most occasions. Their form of natural does not come anywhere near. Most 'natural' beekeepers, were they to exist, would mostly only have one colony.

No mention of how they avoid aggressive colonies? I wonder why? Not nice letting out the truth.

Naturally, colonies survive or perish (as in darwinian principles). I wonder if that is the case here? I very much doubt it.

Hives appeared to be all man-made. How natural is that?

I could go on with more differences between their 'natural' and real natural.

Yes, they may produce a surplus for very local use, but apart from that they are of very limited use to the human race in the main. Back to donkey santuary comparisons.

So we are left, really, with what? Perhaps a 'happy hippy' type of 'beekeeper', certainly not a natural one, as they don't exist. Just a play on words to appear better than most.

I have known a few happy hippies..... and a few are still on the loose!

Brossy is right when he says 'more natural' but there is a chasm between 'natural' and 'beekeeping' and, I will admit, their 'holier-than-thou' attitude irks me more than a tad.

As for taking anyone, with different make-up, perfumes, hair treatments, etc, next to a colony like that was sheer bravado or stupidity. Simply asking for trouble - which is what they got, then fobbed off as 'natural' again.

Perhaps you can see where I am coming from when I criticise or challenge the whole concept of being 'natural'. Just a silly hippy facade, IMO.

I am perfectly happy to let them carry on in their own little ways but that is as far as I would go. As soon as thy start to denigrate all other methods is where I draw the line.

Yes, let's just call them 'happy beekeepers'?

RAB
 
"their 'holier-than-thou' attitude irks me more than a tad" - Sorry, that's a fallacy dreamt up by conventional beekeepers - there's lots of difference in approach by (more) natural beekeepers - of course I prefer my way of doing things, or I wouldn't do it that way, conventional beeks are similarly convinced their way is best, but us (more) natural beekeepers don't keep accusing them of being "holier than thou" (although many of them behave that way - witness the utterly scurrilous and bitter attacks, and untrue accusations hurled in these recent threads following the TV programme!)

"they are of very limited use to the human race" displays a lamentable lack of understanding of the value of bees in nature - they aren't just there to provide us with honey, they also perform invaluable services in pollination - many of the new crop of beekeepers who are helping bring up the numbers of bees are (more ) natural beekeepers who practice apicentric beekeeping - putting the health of the bees above all else (including honey production)

As for the deeply patronising "I am perfectly happy to let them carry on in their own little ways but that is as far as I would go" - how awfully kind of you! I could retort that we'll return the compliment by not name-calling!
 
There is, undeniably, a problem with our bee population - it is shrinking - some may say the bee population is in crisis.

As others have said this simply isn't true and yet strangely I hear bee keepers from all sides of the spectrum spouting this around - it's simply supply and demand for managed colonies and there are "ferals more or less everywhere here after a brief decline in the 80's.

Chris
 
Yes, let's just call them 'happy beekeepers'?

RAB

:iagree:

What really bemuses me about "happy beekeepers" is they are mostly new to the game, they dont usually stay in the game for very long, and yet, while they are in the game they know whats best for the bees more than people who have been keeping bees long before they ever thought it might be a good idea, and in all likelyhood will be keeping bees long after they've moved onto the next trendy "green wash", furthermore, while the "happy beekeeper" does have bees, they keep them in a far more "eco" way !
Grow up !
 
there are "ferals more or less everywhere here after a brief decline in the 80's.

Not quite the same in the UK, I would think. Take away all the managed colonies and what would be left? True, they would likely recover in numbers, as is the case in your area, given a little time.
 
there are "ferals more or less everywhere here after a brief decline in the 80's.

Not quite the same in the UK, I would think. Take away all the managed colonies and what would be left? True, they would likely recover in numbers, as is the case in your area, given a little time.

My impression is they are out there in increasing numbers, they do succumb to varroa eventually, but not before producing daughter colonies. I'm judging by swarms I've been called to mainly.
 
Sorry Chris, can't resist it - "and yes the bees do often thrive in old fashioned regimens, and survive intrusive inspections, drone culling, being presented with unnatural foundation, having their queens marked, clipped and replaced, having their natural swarming instincts subverted, and being doused with various toxic nostrums They are tough and versatile"
This is the case with the human animal !
If we were to go Au Naturale it would certainly sort out the population boom and cure Global warming :D
I won't be volunteering ! Will you Brossie ? after all what is good for your bees ,must be good for you :D
VM
 
Sorry Chris, can't resist it - "and yes the bees do often thrive in old fashioned regimens, and survive intrusive inspections, drone culling, being presented with unnatural foundation, having their queens marked, clipped and replaced, having their natural swarming instincts subverted, and being doused with various toxic nostrums They are tough and versatile"

I'm glad we agree most forms of beekeeping don't compromise the bees in any major way.
 

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