Many going to the National Honey Show?

[Erichalfbee]

Exactly what he said at NHS but that would mean warmth wouldn’t it. That’s what solar gain is about. Warmth.

 

[rolande]

These new boxes do look lovely but they aren't very eco friendly.
A bit like the old style Ferrero Rocher boxes which weren't recyclable either.

Maybe a label on the bottom explaining that they could be reused to store little things like pins, for example, would do the job.

 

[North End Bees]

Maybe a label on the bottom explaining that they could be reused to store little things like pins, for example, would do the job.

Well that's the sort of thing they might say to deflect their environmental responsibility.
What if people want to have more than one cut comb? How many boxes do they need to keep pins in??

 

[rolande]

Well that's the sort of thing they might say to deflect their environmental responsibility.
What if people want to have more than one cut comb? How many boxes do they need to keep pins in??

It's the sort of thing I might say, don't know who 'they' are.

I think in the great scheme of things it's probably not going to be a major issue for most people, but for those who don't like the idea, they'll buy from someone else no doubt, even if it means driving an extra few miles.

 

[North End Bees]

I think in the great scheme of things it's probably not going to be a major issue for most people, but for those who don't like the idea, they'll buy from someone else no doubt, even if it means driving an extra few miles.

No, it's not a major issue for most people. That's why we are where we are.

People might keep boxes for a while 'because they might come in handy' then eventually they need the cupboard space and the boxes get chucked out to join the rest of the 13 million tonnes of plastics that end up in the ocean every year.

 

[Superlativesoul]

Thank you

You can see the newsletters here.

This thoroughly deserved to win ,I shall look forward to reading them all.A lot of time and effort went into producing the newsletter ,and I'm sure your association members are grateful for the information
John

 

[BeeKeyPlayer]

This thoroughly deserved to win ,I shall look forward to reading them all.A lot of time and effort went into producing the newsletter ,and I'm sure your association members are grateful for the information
John

Thank you . I hope the members like the newsletters but people don't really get back to you to say. At least not after your first issue. I take the view that I'm asking a lot of them to read it, never mind write comments or send responses.

 

[user 6228]

He asked if you were there and if you were could you stand up. He was having a joke with you
He was talking about ventilation and why his colonies needed it in the winter. He wraps his hives with black wrap for solar gain. Then the penny dropped....He gets condensation on his top boards because the sides, warmed by the sun, are warmer than the top.

hmm
Well the emissivity of black polythene is not much different to bare or painted wood but thin polythene is almost infra red transparent. So I doubt it makes any difference for Solar Gain. However the air gap between the plastic and wood, and water shedding of the plastic reducing evaporative losses would make a difference. He is insulating his hive walls a bit, thats all and making a sort of Infra red greenhouse effect , thats if he leaves an airgap . It would work just as well perhaps better if it were transparent polythene

black polythene feels warm because it has very small thermal capacity per unit area. The solar gain thing of black polythene is a myth/illusion

EDIT I'll take the last bit back and amend it: The solar warming thing is a lot smaller than people think as its difference in reflectance between shiny black plastic and matt dark grey wood.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

What plastic? it's tar paper

 

[user 6228]

What plastic? it's tar paper

No tar paper is not IR transparent

 

[BeeKeyPlayer]

No tar paper is not IR transparent

Sorry, spell it out for me. Does tar paper give any solar warmth / gain?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Sorry, spell it out for me. Does tar paper give any solar warmth / gain?

Quite. Wouldn’t it have the same effect as painting the boxes black? More or less?

 

[user 6228]

Sorry, spell it out for me. Does tar paper give any solar warmth / gain?

No not really unless your hives are painted a reflective white ... Sorry radiation can be non-intutive even for the knowledgeable...

 

[user 6228]

Quite. Wouldn’t it have the same effect as painting the boxes black? More or less?

unpainted hives do a good job of absorbing light in the visible spectrum but the reemit in the infra red. You might get a difference if you painted the hive in a high reflectance paint, but the emissivity would stay the same.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Why do dark objects feel warmer in the winter sunshine?

 

[user 6228]

Why do dark objects feel warmer in the winter sunshine?

the issue is balance between emissivity, and reflectance and how its varies with wavelength. A high reflectance object with and average high emissivity will reach equilibrium at a lower temperature than a low reflectance at the same emissivity. The difference in reflectance between shiny black plastic(~0.10) and dark matt grey weathered wood(0.2) is not much in the visible spectrum (10% difference ), there is almost no difference in emissivity in the infra red. The black plastic will be in equilibrium a slightly higher temp than the wood. But the thin plastic will hit equilibrium fast. The wood will be very slow in comparison (specific heat capacity)

How they feel to us when we put a hand on them is more complicated because the heat capacity and thermal conductivity of the item confuse things. Metal items feel hotter or colder than wooden items at the same temperature.

Try it out with your IR camera

Metal surfaces however can be very low emisivity and very high reflectance. So the "space blanket" keeps you warm by reflecting the radiation you emit back at you and prevents the police helicopter see you at night with its IR vision as it doesnt emit the raised temperature it has gained from you.
In both applications it helps not to be in contact with the blanket.

 

[ericbeaumont]

new Thorne cut comb containers

CC containers. Have been around for a while, but no UK distributors until now and minimum order was far more than use in a lifetime

At last!

These boxes look as good as the Ozmertplastik manufactured in Turkey and sold throughout Europe. Not here, of course, because the UK lags when it comes to progressive beekeeping and Brexit made matters sticky.

It has been at least 4 or 5 years since I began missmarpling a source of these boxes, from Turkey (didn't need 10,000) to the Isle of Man honey buyer who held the mould rights (no reply). Asked Bee Equipment if they could import via their Mann Lake link, but they took the cheap route and bought Chinese copies with Chinese writing on the lid...

I hoped that others would plod the same trail that led me to write to Thorne earlier this year; this optimistic reply arrived: Dear Eric, Thank you for your message. I can’t see the base of the container on the Hilltop Honey website but I guess it is transparent. We are always looking for new products but, as the season is just kicking off big time, we don’t really have time to look into this. If we did source a different container, it wouldn’t be through Mr ........ or that Turkish company. Watch this space but please be patient!

Since then I heard that Murray McGregor at Denrosa uses and stocks them (via the IoM link, so I was told) but forgot to find out more. Either way, they're here now at a good price and thanks to Gill and all else that is mighty, UK cut comb can at last move on a century.

 

[user 6228]

At last!

These boxes look as good as the Ozmertplastik manufactured in Turkey and sold throughout Europe. Not here, of course, because the UK lags when it comes to progressive beekeeping and Brexit made matters sticky.

It has been at least 4 or 5 years since I began missmarpling a source of these boxes, from Turkey (didn't need 10,000) to the Isle of Man honey buyer who held the mould rights (no reply). Asked Bee Equipment if they could import via their Mann Lake link, but they took the cheap route and bought Chinese copies with Chinese writing on the lid...

I hoped that others would plod the same trail that led me to write to Thorne earlier this year; this optimistic reply arrived: Dear Eric, Thank you for your message. I can’t see the base of the container on the Hilltop Honey website but I guess it is transparent. We are always looking for new products but, as the season is just kicking off big time, we don’t really have time to look into this. If we did source a different container, it wouldn’t be through Mr ........ or that Turkish company. Watch this space but please be patient!

Since then I heard that Murray McGregor at Denrosa uses and stocks them (via the IoM link, so I was told) but forgot to find out more. Either way, they're here now at a good price and UK cut comb can at last, thanks to Gill and all else that is mighty, move on a century.

Do you have a picture?

 

[ericbeaumont]

they could be reused

Refill?

not a major issue for most people

As it is, many of my customers re-purpose the plastic bakers' honey tubs I fill from a bucket at market, and I have to remind them to bring the tubs back. All sorts of uses: an artist uses them for paint, another for storing leftovers...

 

[user 6228]

What plastic? it's tar paper

tar paper is dark grey similar in reflectance to weathered wood.