Import of NZ bees into UK

[johna]

Perhaps Danish bees aren't regarded as a potentiol hazard

 

[Somerford]

Perhaps Danish bees aren't regarded as a potentiol hazard

lol - just very liberal

S

 

[Hivemaker.]

ALL imported queens/colonies for sale by a commercial beekeeper headed by an imported queen / 1st/2nd/3rd generation of, to be advertised as such.

Your away with the fairies, are'nt you. I can never see that happening.

 

[Into the lions den]

it was a statement I was challenging.

There was nothing to challenge. You may not have noticed the word 'also' in what I said. Never said we do not quote numbers, because we do, for various reasons, depending on the circumstances and the nature of the audience.

 

[Into the lions den]

I can't afford expensive imported queens to re-queen my stocks so use splits and select from the best of them.I notice M.Rob---s is charging an horrendous price for his queens-I wonder what he actually pays for them??.
It must pay tho' when you think what ITLD must be forking out for his 600 colonies,hives etc.etc.he must get some weight of honey to fund it all or is the Co-op lashing out?-I don' suppose they will over pay for the bulk honey.Who bottles it ?

It is a shared cost, a partnership.

There is no way you can compare what the average person on here has to pay for their supplies with the price I pay. I will just not accept Chippendale prices for woodenware, and caviar prices for syrup. I think you nearly all get acutely 'stiffed' for your purchases.

Pay back time on the new hives and the bees to fill them is about 2 to 3 years, weather dependant. Heather honey is utterly crucial to the calculation.

Not actually going to break it all down, but per colony this set-up costs the Co-op and myself £ 201 per colony...........Floor, 5 Langstroth Polystyrene Deeps, 50 Deep frames, assembled and cross wired, 50 sheets Langstroth deep brood foundation, 1 QExcluder, 1 feeder, 1 roof, 2 gallons invert syrup, 1Kg bees, 1 mated laying queen, all labour and transport included.

Not included are the annual ongoing running costs. Transport, beekeepers wages, feeding, 10% new wax, medication, extracting costs
etc etc., which runs at about £ 77 percolony.


Yield per colony in year 1............Just being established so count blossom as zero (it will be better than that) and heather at 22Kg ( Our long term average is a bit over that)..........£ 130

year 2 add in 18Kg blossom (only one full box per colony).Heather the same as yr 1........so £220

So over first two years TOTAL outlays = £355

total cash yield approx = £350

BUT.......have a major asset on top of that stark figure, value once establish c£250 -300, plus an annual ongoing crop.

Who bottles the honey? Well that is for Co-op Farms to decide, if indeed they do not just flog it all in bulk. IF going inot jars the premises MUST be BRC approved, and prepared to do the job, and so far as I am aware that means only either Rowse for bigger jobs, or Scarletts for short runs. Not any part of my involvement however. I only provide the honey never heated, semi filtered, in drums ready for uplift.

 

[Into the lions den]

Not actually responding to the bit you wrote, but to the material you pasted in from another forum.............and of course the sub thread you started away from this one.

4000 packages from NZ for Mr. Roberts? You DO like your rumours dont you!

OK, for a start its a total myth. There are TWO licenced exporters from NZ who do packages, Kintail Honey and Arataki. I have regular contact with both.

Kintail are unable to supply the EU this year due to the volume of orders from Canada, and it is not viable to go through all the hoops NZMAAF make them do for the odd little order (and less than 500 packages is a little order!).

Arataki have an exclusivity deal with myself and one other party. One or two others also buy queens only direct.

The aforesaid gentleman just CANNOT be doing this, it is impossible.

What IS true is that he has been TRYING to buy in packages, but the rest is just tittle tattle.

 

[Into the lions den]

I also spoke to Ron on Sunday evening .... he is not to be thwarted by all this, infact he is looking to obtain additional funding to try and get more nucs/queens produced...it appears like he is coming out fighting on all this.

it's not over 'til it's over...

regards

S

YOU may want to continue in a confrontational tone but the correspondence I have had with Ron is very different in character from your stance. Yes his work will continue, and the idea that it would not was a response to a panic, somewhat of YOUR making.

'Coming out fighting' is just not the way he portrays it himself. Yes, he will be carrying on, yes he is increasing his activities, and yes (possibly to your surprise) I am supportive of his work. I know that does not make for a good stirrable pot, but it is how it is. He sounds like a nice man trying in earnest to make a difference in his own way. No need to apply pugilistic overtones when none are there and no need for them either.

 

[BKF Admin]

and so far as I am aware that means only either Rowse for bigger jobs, or Scarletts for short runs. Not any part of my involvement however. I only provide the honey never heated, semi filtered, in drums ready for uplift.

There are a few other plants that bottle honey in the uk.

 

[Into the lions den]

There are a few other plants that bottle honey in the uk.

Oh there are lots. Several COULD pack it. However BRC (British Retail Consortium) approval is ( I am lead to understand) a condition of doing Co-op label product. ( Some others specify this too.)

If you do not have it then you must expect a brutal audit from any of these large retailers. Co-op get round that by having it done by BRC, and then they can carry out relatively simple checks.

Unitl recently Rowse alone were an approved packer, Scarletts are a relatively recent addition. No-one else has made the list. Full auditing suppliers is an expensive and time consuming process, both for the retailer and the supplier.

Different matter if you pack for the Co-op or anyone else under your OWN label. Then all the liabilities are on yourself apart from the retailer having to show at least some level of prudence in their sourcing process.

Got out of packing completely in 2001, at which time were doing about 80 tonnes of various honey types a year. Among other reasons, I saw lots of VERY expensive hoops to be jumped through ahead, not justified by the mark up available. Best decision I ever made.

 

[Into the lions den]

It is a shared cost, a partnership.
Not actually going to break it all down, but per colony this set-up costs the Co-op and myself £ 201 per colony...........Floor, 5 Langstroth Polystyrene Deeps, 50 Deep frames, assembled and cross wired, 50 sheets Langstroth deep brood foundation, 1 QExcluder, 1 feeder, 1 roof, 2 gallons invert syrup, 1Kg bees, 1 mated laying queen, all labour and transport included.

Just did the same calculation using UK established vendors, and assuming maximum trade discount, plus special deals where I know I can get them.........same items comes to £437.00 approx. Amateurs will pay even more. Painful!

All that money for a somewhat lesser product too.........

fwiw, if anyone wants to check this, we never use seconds with frames, everything MUST be completely knot free, as our existing cleansing system melts resin out of even fast knots and they fall out, so prices for seconds cannot be used.

 

[RoofTops]

Perhaps Danish bees aren't regarded as a potentiol hazard

Yes, I think it is all risk-based to use a current vogue phrase. As ITLD said many pages ago imported bees and queens can be healthier than UK sourced ones. This is not to say they all are but that is why there are regulations.

 

[Chris B]

Not included are the annual ongoing running costs. Transport, beekeepers wages, feeding, 10% new wax, medication, extracting costs
etc etc., which runs at about £ 77 percolony.


Yield per colony in year 1............Just being established so count blossom as zero (it will be better than that) and heather at 22Kg ( Our long term average is a bit over that)..........£ 130

year 2 add in 18Kg blossom (only one full box per colony).Heather the same as yr 1........so £220

I'm intrigued by some of these figures Murray. Heather yield impressively high, but blossom projection surprisingly low. If you winter the bees at Down Ampney, won't they be advanced enough to exploit the rape and beans a bit more than 1 full box before they go to the heather?

 

[Somerford]

There was nothing to challenge. You may not have noticed the word 'also' in what I said. Never said we do not quote numbers, because we do, for various reasons, depending on the circumstances and the nature of the audience.[/QUOTE**

Quite frankly, it was a statement from you. Murray, and to think you could get away without it being challenged here, of all places ?

S

 

[Somerford]

ALL imported queens/colonies for sale by a commercial beekeeper headed by an imported queen / 1st/2nd/3rd generation of, to be advertised as such.

Your away with the fairies, are'nt you. I can never see that happening.

You may think so, but only because at this moment in time there is no regulation...

S

 

[Nellie]

There is the so called teaching of the BBKA which (I am not knocking all of it just this issue) promotes young queens as the end of swarming which is frankly just not right.

It's not true either, or the first time you've asserted, incorrectly, that the BBKA material promotes something "silly" (my choice of words).

Young queens are mentioned, amongst other things, as part of swarm prevention but they're certainly not promoted as a "cure" for swarming. Not much point trying to link to the document, but under the heading "Factors which will help prevent swarm preparations by a colony", the second suggestion is using "a young and vigorous queen".
The first is use a strain of bee with a low tendency to swarm, third is give them lots of room, fourth is ample ventilation.

I'm not seeing that as controversial or advice unique to the BBKA.

If you want to argue that 4 bullet points hardly constitutes in-depth advice for publicly available material from the BBKA, that's a different matter.

 

[oliver90owner]

As ITLD said many pages ago imported bees and queens can be healthier than UK sourced ones.

I like that one!

One healthy queen into a mixed bunch of 20,000 bees (with all the every disease going). I think the reqiuirement is simply to have less obvious diseases coming in from outsdide.

RAB

 

[Into the lions den]

I'm intrigued by some of these figures Murray. Heather yield impressively high, but blossom projection surprisingly low. If you winter the bees at Down Ampney, won't they be advanced enough to exploit the rape and beans a bit more than 1 full box before they go to the heather?

All being equal, then yes, it should be so. However, pitching the expectations low for now. I usually work my viability forecasts on the basis of a 60% of normal harvest. If I do not break even at that then there can be trouble brewing, unless you get lucky a lot.

And a full box btw, is a Langstroth deep. Heavy beastie.

In our management the early season is merely a prelude to the main meal later. This my change a bit for the English units, but up here a blossom crop these days is just a bonus, almost a by product. Everything is about having the bees ready for early July.

 

[Chris B]

And a full box btw, is a Langstroth deep. Heavy beastie.

I know. I'm probably about 2 inches shorter since I started lugging those things.

 

[Into the lions den]

I still don't get what you are challenging. Someone made the statement that commercials were all about numbers. I did not dispute the fact though I did dispute the attached sentiment. So I agree we are about numbers, but I pointed out that amateurs are ALSO often about numbers. Others agreed. Where is the disagreement to pick up on? I was not aware of saying anything contentious.

 

[Into the lions den]

I know. I'm probably about 2 inches shorter since I started lugging those things.

lol...........just looked in the mirror. Funny how those two inches shorter always results in a pressure bulge, somewere between the bottom of the ribs and the pelvis..........


Oops.....will now be seen as a FAT, greedy exploitative commercial beekeeper........