Import of NZ bees into UK

[johna]

Surely it's about time that the U.K.had its own national queen breeding unit-- I would have thought there is enough expertese to set to and breed good quality queens from material that is already available in this country.Too much emphasis on trying to raise early neucs with exotic queens to meet the demand from new beekeepers as well as replacing lost colonies by the beefarming comunity.

 

[Poly Hive]

Surely it's about time that the U.K.had its own national queen breeding unit-- I would have thought there is enough expertese to set to and breed good quality queens from material that is already available in this country.Too much emphasis on trying to raise early neucs with exotic queens to meet the demand from new beekeepers as well as replacing lost colonies by the beefarming comunity.

National Bee Breeding Unit. Run by? Paid for by? Producing what strain?

Imported queens for the BFA are usually not to replace lost colonies but to assist in swarm control. Not to mention splitting colonies for Heather work.

It's just not that simple. I wish it were.

There is the so called teaching of the BBKA which (I am not knocking all of it just this issue) promotes young queens as the end of swarming which is frankly just not right.

There are comercial issues.

There is the bragging rights issue. "I got this fantastic Queen from XYZ bees are so tame, honey pouring in, blah blah blah and all utter rubbish", and so envy starts up.

There needs to be a sea change in attitudes. Then we may make progress.

PH

 

[Chris B]

Surely it's about time that the U.K.had its own national queen breeding unit-- I would have thought there is enough expertese to set to and breed good quality queens from material that is already available in this country.Too much emphasis on trying to raise early neucs with exotic queens to meet the demand from new beekeepers as well as replacing lost colonies by the beefarming comunity.

And another issue... going "the whole hog" a proper national programme (as in some other EU countries) would require everybody to be part of it, whether passively or actively e.g. "if you keep bees in such and such an area you must source queens from XYZ". Seeing as a significant number of beekeepers hold their own liberty to be so important they won't even register on Bee Base, I would foresee plenty of resistance to an enforced queen regime.

Personally I would much prefer to see incentives for any individual/group to set up queen production units (say for a minimum 1000 queens/year).

 

[Friar Tuck]

Why cant the government fund it ? Or the EU. The EU spends €55 billion a year on farm subsidies.. why cant a bit be put aside for queen breeding? That's approximately €12,517 per farm. Thanks Mr Cameron

 

[johna]

The problem is that the most prevalent attitude of beekeepers is to "talk it to death" rather than take an initiative.What are BBKA funds and SBA funds used for ? "Promotion of Beekeeping? Fancy advertising? or what? Surely we can't sit back and wait for our government to take up the cudgels 'cos we're so hard up and there's a war on don't you know!!!.It's up to us to get something done collectively and perhaps drop our parochial attitudes.Lets think British for once.

 

[RoseCottage]

Chris,
I'm not sure why everybody would need to take part in a National programme. If we can identify the requirements, BBKA, private or public finance...or even a small rise in annual BBKA subscriptions, and start building a programme then in a couple of years significant impact could be made.

Will it get everyone buying UK bred queens...not initially (and maybe never) but it will reduce the Biosecurity threat vectors.

PolyHive, run by? Funded by? Producing what strain?
Let's think as widely as possible...a University like Sussex (uni's are always looking at ways to turn research into money) or a Bee farmer who has the space and skills,
Maybe even supported by local associations creating local queens and nucs.

Funded initially by the BBKA, The BKA, or Co-Op/private finance sponsors, perhaps in these difficult times we leave central government cash out of our plans.

What strain...well why just one? it should be possible to create enough queens for our requirements (so long as someone actually studies them...sounds like it could be a uni project towards a degree or phd). These could be a range of strains to suit different needs, locations, etc.

No it certainly isn't straightforward and I have no knowledge of the politics or inertia within the BBKA and BFA. However, there are options and all challenges and issues can be resolved. Things only get resolved by addressing the challenges logically and by a group of people wanting to make a contribution.

Sam

 

[Friar Tuck]

From an anonymous source:


... I've subsequently been informed that there is a much bigger order due to hit Gloucestershire. 4000 packages supposedly from NZ for ******* (Mike Roberts). This may include the Co-op bees or it may be totally independent, ... What makes this more alarming is the fact that Mike has established his own son in Australia over the last few years as a bee producer, and Australian packages are no longer allowed to go to the USA. They will certainly have been tempted to use NZ to "launder" the bees.

This came from another forum also interested in the importing bee issue.

i did reply

"The Bee Farmer Importing the Bees "Murray" has stated

"1. There is NO involvement of any other producer or reseller. So the particular ghost that has been raised you can put to bed. ( I am presuming it is a certain Mr. Roberts that is meant.) Do not know where that story came from."

Thought it mite be of interest to this tread !

 

[Chris B]

Chris,
I'm not sure why everybody would need to take part in a National programme.

Hi Sam, perhaps I've misunderstood what you meant by a National queen breeding scheme, but "national" to me would mean all-emcompassing and government led. National funding would be difficult to achieve but if it happened it would also come with strings attached. Every colony out there contributes to the national gene pool so would be seen as something to be documented and controlled. Every colony would need to conform genetically. There are certainly advantages to such a scheme (is Murray/ITLD sourcing his high quality queens from a region that operates such a scheme?), but the "big brother" element would be a turn-off to many.

 

[Black Comb]

I've been with this tread from the start.
The old cynic in me says if these Co-op farms are such a gold (honey) mine why haven't the "local" commercial bee farmers stepped up?
Also, having visited the retail outlet of the previous incumbent I would say he is very profit focussed and would not have withdrawn if there had been a few shillings in it.

I wonder if Murray will be there in 5 years?

This is after all a commercial operation and the numbers will be the deciding factor.

 

[Chris B]

I've been with this tread from the start.
The old cynic in me says if these Co-op farms are such a gold (honey) mine why haven't the "local" commercial bee farmers stepped up?
Also, having visited the retail outlet of the previous incumbent I would say he is very profit focussed and would not have withdrawn if there had been a few shillings in it.

I wonder if Murray will be there in 5 years?

This is after all a commercial operation and the numbers will be the deciding factor.

Co-op have a "produced by us" range of foods and honey is in it. Up until now "produced on our land" has been justification to call it "produced by us". But Co-op land will only produce so much honey, so to meet the demand they need to farm their own bees on other peoples land (e.g. Murray has talked about moving these bees to heather). Owning their own bees was a logical step to increase production.
As for farming their own bees on their own land. There are no gold mines. Field crops allow high density bees but the crunch time is July when field crops have gone. Owning the bees gives them the freedom to follow the nectar flow off of their own land at the appropriate time.

 

[Into the lions den]

Also, having visited the retail outlet of the previous incumbent I would say he is very profit focussed and would not have withdrawn if there had been a few shillings in it.

As I understand it there has been a recent history of 'not seeing eye to eye' between the Co-op and the previous bee farmer. Number of reasons but according to theior fruit manager, failure to provide anywhere near the requested number (like under a third) of colonies for pollination and leaving them short was at least one of the issues. They did not withdraw, they were asked to leave. After that decision was made the Co-op Farms decided that the next pahse of their bee ownership scheme should be on the land in question. So.....I was asked to fill a vacuum, I have not ousted anyone and personally have no quarrel with Maisemore.

I wonder if Murray will be there in 5 years?

You bet we will. We have been going since 1950, and when I keel over my family will follow on. Only way we will not be there is if the Co-op loses interest and decides on a different policy or bee farmer, which will be their choice. It is a free business world and they can choose whoever they wish to be on their land.

This is after all a commercial operation and the numbers will be the deciding factor.

Not quite sure what your point here is.......any commercial, semi commercial, or even large amateur MUST do their financials. Do the financials right does not make you a bad beekeeper. There is a persistent tendency to take that line from the amateur sector, but it really just shows failure to understand that, at all times, the bees come first. The old saying that if you look after them that they will then look after you, is still as true today as it always was.

Amateurs also love quoting numbers at people, be it crop averages, colony numbers or whatever.

 

[greatbritishhoney]

.......any commercial, semi commercial, or even large amateur MUST do their financials. Do the financials right does not make you a bad beekeeper.

Too right.
I'd go further and say that ALL beekeepers should do their sums properly - it's better for the bees and it makes us all more credible (whichever "side" of this dispute you are on, if any).

 

[victor meldrew]

I must be the complete chicken .
I am a hobbyist, hobbies cost money !
Beekeeping allows a little claw-back but not enough to justify recording all outgoings ,after all I suffer from a heart condition

John Wilkinson

 

[johna]

I don't have a heart condition but ought to when I add up how much I spend on my bees.Sometimes get a return but mostly the weather steps in and the bees eat everything so I have to feed them thro' the winter.
I can't afford expensive imported queens to re-queen my stocks so use splits and select from the best of them.I notice M.Rob---s is charging an horrendous price for his queens-I wonder what he actually pays for them??.
It must pay tho' when you think what ITLD must be forking out for his 600 colonies,hives etc.etc.he must get some weight of honey to fund it all or is the Co-op lashing out?-I don' suppose they will over pay for the bulk honey.Who bottles it ?

 

[Somerford]

Amateurs also love quoting numbers at people, be it crop averages, colony numbers or whatever.

Murray - I think you'll find that Professionals are as guilty of this as anyone else

regards

S

 

[Somerford]

From an anonymous source:


... I've subsequently been informed that there is a much bigger order due to hit Gloucestershire. 4000 packages supposedly from NZ for ******* (Mike Roberts). This may include the Co-op bees or it may be totally independent, ... What makes this more alarming is the fact that Mike has established his own son in Australia over the last few years as a bee producer, and Australian packages are no longer allowed to go to the USA. They will certainly have been tempted to use NZ to "launder" the bees.

This came from another forum also interested in the importing bee issue.

I think, if nothing else comes from this thread, that the B B K A/powers that be ought to consider the proposal for ALL imported queens/colonies for sale by a commercial beekeeper headed by an imported queen / 1st/2nd/3rd generation of, to be advertised as such.

Clear traceability in so far as all importers (through the registered channels) would be available to view on a site, together with numbers imported - figures could be easily updated by local BDI/importing officials

All importers to CLEARLY indicate whether the colonies are imported or not - and have traceability too (numbers on queens perhaps)

Non-negotiable.

That way the purchaser can make their own mind up.....


Now I think this could be workable......

regards

S

 

[Somerford]

If you receive queens in a jiffy bag you are supposed to send the accompanying workers to the NBU for analysis, if my memory serves. There are instructions on BeeBase.

When I got my first queens from Denmark I asked the local bee inspector what to do and he wasn't interested once I told him the source.

I suspect he thought testing them a waste of time.

You have to ask WHY he didn't consider it important ? He should have done

regards

S

 

[Poly Hive]

That's a little snide Somerford?

The pros need the numbers, the amateurs like wishful thinking...

PH

 

[Somerford]

I also spoke to Ron on Sunday evening .... he is not to be thwarted by all this, infact he is looking to obtain additional funding to try and get more nucs/queens produced...it appears like he is coming out fighting on all this.

it's not over 'til it's over...

regards

S

 

[Somerford]

That's a little snide Somerford?

The pros need the numbers, the amateurs like wishful thinking...

PH

Snide ? in what way ?

it was a statement I was challenging. As a professional retailer, I know that retailers love quoting figures/stats....and it's the same in any business. I was standing up for the amateurs !


And what's to say amateurs don't manage their apiaries in a business like manner ? I do...I have (and I'll just check my spreadsheet) have seen income of £xxxx this year from honey sales and expenditure of £xxx, therefore I am in credit and am very satisfied.

regards

S