Import of NZ bees into UK

[johna]

On a serious note (and it does happen occasionally with me) this thread should come with two things based on my own experience.

A preface (a preview? A warning) It is possible to commence reading the thing without realising the sheer size. Before you realise it you are two hours in and have not stratched it? The preface could contain a realistic assessment of how long it would take to conduct a thorough read - in my case 10 hours plus.

A warning to take notes of points of interest and post number. It is difficult to cross reference back when arriving at the end of 88 pages of posts. Having read it all in one go, i would now have appreciated knowing this at the start .

For those who are interested in the content but do not have the time/resilience/attention span etc to read it all, an appraisal of the threads contents would be an alternative?

It might also assist those of us who have read it!!


Regards

What we need is an index -----ANY VOLUNTEERS ????
FB[/quote]

 

[Poly Hive]

Oh no.

It is here to be read.

If best in anything is to be awarded to anyone on this thread then I would have thought the winner was pretty obvious on both style and content.

A thread that has thrown up some serious issues making it the most thought provoking one yet.

PH

 

[Into the lions den]

Hello admin
For those who are interested in the content but do not have the time/resilience/attention span etc to read it all, an appraisal of the threads contents would be an alternative?

Nice idea, but it is quite a job for someone to undertake............and then if they do is it because they have a motive to do so? Anyone happy to be totally neutral and show both sides probably is not motivated. Those that would be might be skewed one way or the other.

Anyone able and willing to do the job and remain unbiased would deserve the thread medal immediately.

I am bowing out for now due to pressure of work. Of course I will still read and come back on if there is anything new to report.

 

[mbc]

Most serious revalation ( to me anyway ):
We import bees on frames from the EU ( anyone remember small hive beatles in Portugal ?)

 

[Skyhook]

Nice idea, but it is quite a job for someone to undertake............and then if they do is it because they have a motive to do so? Anyone happy to be totally neutral and show both sides probably is not motivated. Those that would be might be skewed one way or the other.

Anyone able and willing to do the job and remain unbiased would deserve the thread medal immediately.

I am bowing out for now due to pressure of work. Of course I will still read and come back on if there is anything new to report.

I nominate HP- take his mind off his back.

 

[fredbloggs]

Oh no.

It is here to be read.


PH

I do not disagree. I am merely pointing out that with some prior warning, the time taken to read it (and i mean read/digest as opposed to skim) will be more productively spent if one had prior notoce as to what they could expect. I most certainly do not regret the day i could have spent doing something else even though i frequently experienced through gritted teeth the "mastermind - i've started so i will bloody well finish" ? Syndrome.

As for awards - i do not want my light hearted attempted at humour (because
someone has to?) to be misunderstood.
Even the most hardened "anti imports" supporter could not fail to be impressed by the manner in which murray (ITLD) has conducted himself throughout.

For those who wonder why this thread has gone off the boil, the campaign has widened to ban all imports and proceeds under a new thread.

Regards

FB

Ps By explanation Johna 's thread has had problems i suspect with the deletion of part of the quote function. The result is that most of his post looks like a post of his/her own wheras it is a copy of my previous one.

 

[Headnavigator]

Sorry - I have followed this thread but am now losing my way. In #549 ITLD mentioned importing 300 packages to be split to make 600. Did he say where these were from in the end? Looking back I can't find an answer. Help - I'm drowning in this thread!

 

[johna]

Dead right FREDBLOGGS,I was agreeing with you and merely added the thought that we need an index to sort everything into context and was asking for a volunteer to carry out this function.I'm afraid my computer crashed at the critical moment-however a good kick and it's hopefully going to behave from now on.

 

[Into the lions den]

Most serious revalation ( to me anyway ):
We import bees on frames from the EU ( anyone remember small hive beatles in Portugal ?)

Break time, and spotted this post so will just come in on it.

In reality nowadays your home marketplace is the borders of the EU, not the borders of single member states.

The rules of trade within the EU are quite clear, that, subject to a health certificate being issued, such trade is perfectly permissable. Unless some awful industry threatening pest rolls up in mainland Europe, banning such a trade just cannot happen.

Need to ban imports? where from? All other countries? EU countries?, only warm EU countries? Scotland? Kent?

Due to the single market, any bees imported to the EU can, perhaps after a short period, be re-exported to other EU countries (ie UK?). Thus overall import policy is decided at EU level (anything less is easily circumventable nonsense) and 'third' countries have their rules of acceptability or otherwise decided at that level.

That colonies on combs come into the UK is beyond doubt. I have seen it myself. A single case of AFB was found perhaps three years ago, I think in Herts, in a nuc from Spain. ( The guy imported 200 in one go) and has also been found, again in southern England, in an import from France, again aprt of a much larger import.

Then again, what security do you get bringing bees in from any UK source, from far away or even the apiary down the road? None.

Those arguing for a total ban MIGHT get somewhere in a co-ordinated stand Europe wide against third country imports. Against intra EU imports you have no chance and may expend a vast amount of energy and will get nowhere. I am afraid your bees, my bees, everyones bees, are a mere little sideshow in the trade we generally benefit from, and no government is going to opt for isolation trade wise over a small thing like bees. We are low on the list for consideration. In addition to that, despite their being a majority (far from unanimous) among amateur beekepers for a ban, many UK and EU beekeepers disagree. There is no concensus, therefore there will be no ban.

 

[Into the lions den]

Sorry - I have followed this thread but am now losing my way. In #549 ITLD mentioned importing 300 packages to be split to make 600. Did he say where these were from in the end? Looking back I can't find an answer. Help - I'm drowning in this thread!

It may have been in a chopped post long ago, I thought it had been answered but have had off forum questions on the same matter.

OK, the actual source of the package bees that will have the NZ queens added is not 100% decided. It all depends on health certification, which must be both relaible, and bee quality, which must be from healthy outfits, maninly young bees, and NO drones. The first wave will have their workers from Trentino in the Italian alps. Waves 2 and three not yet decided, maybe the same source, who is a guy I know well and trust totally.

 

[Friar Tuck]

In addition to that, despite their being a majority (far from unanimous) among amateur beekepers for a ban, many UK and EU beekeepers disagree. There is no concensus, therefore there will be no ban.

I agree No concensus. BUT IMO If no beekeepers in the UK imported bees full stop ~ for say the reason of Boisecurity SHB.

Then there would be no imports as no demand thus no supply

 

[RoofTops]

Ah yes, just like the position on hashish/pot. All imports banned and local growers struggling to meet demand so the stuff still comes in illegally.

Things are never simple in the real world.

 

[Friar Tuck]

Ah yes, just like the position on hashish/pot. All imports banned and local growers struggling to meet demand so the stuff still comes in illegally.

Things are never simple in the real world.

I agree. The imported stuff is never as good as the stuff produced by locals tho. It's important to know good breeders

 

[roche]

Isn't there more risk of SHB coming in on fruit though? better to stop fruit imports.

 

[Friar Tuck]

Never try to teach a pig to dance. It will frustrate you, and it irritates the pig

 

[johna]

Anybody got any idea how many Carnolian queens are imported from Slovenia each year ??

 

[Hivemaker.]

Anybody got any idea how many Carnolian queens are imported from Slovenia each year ??

Will 2009 do you..............http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=4260

 

[RoofTops]

I suspect some of the reported figures from the NBU are well short of the mark. In HM's link above it says only 44 queens were imported from Denmark.

I would have expected the actual figure to be at least 10 times that. I have no evidence for that estimate other than my experience that the local BI wasn't really interested in my few imports from Denmark. I suspect they are much more interested in imports from further afield or from less well regulated suppliers. Testing bees from known suppliers is probably seen as a waste of scare resources.

 

[Hivemaker.]

I suspect some of the reported figures from the NBU are well short of the mark. In HM's link above it says only 44 queens were imported from Denmark.

I would have expected the actual figure to be at least 10 times that. I have no evidence for that estimate other than my experience that the local BI wasn't really interested in my few imports from Denmark. I suspect they are much more interested in imports from further afield or from less well regulated suppliers. Testing bees from known suppliers is probably seen as a waste of scare resources.

I believe your most likely correct,you cannot believe any imformation regards imports from that place.........so no one will ever know.

 

[RoseCottage]

So if the official importation figure is around 11,000 what do peope genuinely believe the figure to be, and on what basis do they make their calculations?

I guess the other aspect of the figures that would be useful to know is when the imports took place - early season, mid season, etc as this may indicate the true size of the issue that the bee farmers have stated around early availability of queens.

If it was 2-3000 thousand then isn't that within the whit of a commercially orientated man/woman/other to address. I like the idea of local BKA's developing their own set of Nucs in Association apiaries for the express purpose of satisfying local demands from new keepers or inexperienced, clumsy, ones like me.

I bet we would go a long way to addressing the import issues with just these basic steps.

Sam