Import of NZ bees into UK

[drstitson]

welcome to the forum ITLD

great to hear your side of the story.

obviously many were concerned with NZ carnies flooding the area which you have assured us is not the case.

no-one was suggesting there was anything underhand or illegal going on just expressing concern at another potential route for disease entry.

 

[Into the lions den]

They don't have to do that either. They don't HAVE to sell honey at all. I know I'm making a philosophical argument here and I don't want to hijack the thread but there always seems to be this assumption that businesses are driven by some unstoppable force. Surely corporate resposibility is when a company decides to do or not to do something for moral/ethical/environmental reasons.

The principle as it was related to me in meetings in Manchester etc is twofold.

1. They want to support the British bee industry, and their customers and membership want to be able to get British honey in their Co-op store. To do so it needs to meet very strict production criteria. They just could not get adequate supplies through existing channels, nor full traceablity right back to bee site level, and handling only in BRC approved premises and systems. Plan B is a wonderful initiative made with the very best of intentions and is to be welcomed by all (including myself who it does not actually benefit). However, it will never meet the honey requirement of the customers, who after all have a RIGHT to ask for it, and that is where people like me come in.

2. They need the secure 'in house' pollination. The have been seeing bee pollination as a deficient part of their operation for some time. Anyone near Co-op units in future years will see the efforts the make to make the places bee friendly, and those smaller scale beekeepers on the fringes of their managed land will soon see benefits for themselves.

 

[Into the lions den]

Factual questions welcomed, and I will do my best to answer them.

Why are you not raising the Queens you need yourself,600 or a 1000 Queens would not be much of a problem,obviously not early...or is it a race against time.
Do you think this large volume of imported Queens may have some impact on others in the area who appear to be making some headway in rearing varroa resistant stocks,like Ron Hoskins..or are these imported Queens vsh,so may well be beneficial.

I already breed around 2000 queens a year. I cannot guarantee their freedom from disease. I cannot guarantee their availablity in such numbers before July.
My home unit is located within the Scottish EFB area. No matter the temptation to do otherwise I would not ship them out of that area.

As regards the effect they will have on the local population? Well in over 30 years we cannot see that any imports we have done have ever swamped the local gene pool and in fact it is the reverse which happens. In two to four generations everything reberts back to local or near local. I assume this is due to local drones flying at the right times and getting 'first chance'.

I do not know Ron Hoskins, or indeed anything about his work. I am of course always interested in real progress being made in this field by anyone, and it is especially interesting if the scale of the experiment is quite sizeable (there are a few about, but most are too small to have an adequate gene base), and even more so if it is replicable outside the experimenters specialised local conditions. I am sure someone on here has my private e-mail and could send me details on his work, and perhaps I could nip down to meet him on one of my visits. ( Not putting it up on the forum as I just have a sneaky suspicion I might get mail bombed.)

One last aspect about using these bees and how it meshes with Plan B is that the unit is to be used to help the young get involved with bees, Schools are invited along and indeed already two primary schools are visiting the scottish unit this spring. Our black bees (as I said, most of ours are) are fine most of the time, but one sting could put a potential new beekeeper off, and the uncertainty of temperament actually renders them unsuited to having 8 to 11yo kids around them. These bees are also intended as an introduction to beekeeping for people who want to start, or may at some time ahead want to start, and their sheer gentleness makes that a realsistic aim. It was one of the Co-ops stated desires at the outset, and is that respect it meshes completely with the spirit of plan B.........to get more beekeepers. I would not attempt this with my rather tetchier native stock.

 

[Hivemaker.]

ITLD
Thank you,i appreciate you taking the time to reply about this.

 

[Somerford]

Somerford - playing Devils advocate, and with no real opinion on this matter, but are these local, naturalised breeds Italians, Carnolians, Danish Buckfast and others? And as far as the cross mating is concerned, is this not the case in nearly all naturally occuring mating in the UK already?

It might be so...but why, when our own local gene pool is perfectly acceptable should we want the genes of imported bees merged into our own through the natural breeding characteristics of honey bees ?

The true impact is that of 1. Potential for increased bio-security risks by importing such a volume
2. the impact on the local naturalised gene pool. No one at the Co-Op has yet provided a satisfactory answer

S

 

[Somerford]

Feedback for ITLD/Co-Op

I have not had time to read all the stuff on the forum, I would be here all day. However, suffice to say that I AM the bee farmer involved with the Co-op on this scheme and have come here out of some frustration at the misinformation being spread about the scheme. .

Thank you for braving the forum. As you can see, there has been rather alot of interest in the situation, merely raised by myself when it transpired no one else would stick their neck out at the time

Some of the information is plainly misunderstood, some of it downright malicious and attempting to rouse up protest, and some of it is accurate.

1. There is NO involvement of any other producer or reseller. So the particular ghost that has been raised you can put to bed. ( I am presuming it is a certain Mr. Roberts that is meant.) Do not know where that story came from..

There is nothing malicious in our intentions. We are very concerned as to the effects this volume of package bees will have on the local gene pool in Cirencester and Hereford. I was merely communicating the information that had been passed to me by TWO separate (and unknown to each other) individuals

2. I know EXACTLY what I am getting. The stock has been vetted, examined, checked for everything under the sun, and has been running in the first Co-op unit in Scotland. No middle men involved, direct from the actual breeder..

Personally, I think it hides the real issue - that of imported package bees !

3. Sorry for those who think they will swarm all over the place. Two out of 200 threw castes in 2010. They are intensively managed, and resident staff will be in place at all times and they will be on a full and rigorous 10 day inspection cycle..

We'll see about that. 600 colonies will throw swarms, what %, well your guess is as good as mine, but it will happen

4. They are not yellow bees. They are a dark strain of northern european origin and are perfectly well adapted to the UK climate. They are industrious, and very winter hardy, yet so gentle children can (and have done) been able to open hives, take out brood combs, feel the warmth of the bees, and not get stung. This without smoke or protective clothing. (It was my own children btw, and my 18 month old grandson too was watching and pointing. If you call that stupid or rash then all I can say is you have not seen or worked with these deightful bees.).

Again this is hiding the real issue. I really wouldn't mind what colour they are....I am not one of the black bee officianados, but I am a realist and with my degree level of understanding of genetics, agriculture and from past history, once you go down this path, there is very little going back - and lets face it, we know so little about the true ability of bees to adapt to different climates, after all we have only been studying them for the past 50 years and the effects will take much longer to surface, by which time it will probably be irreversible. Your effort to demonstrate the bees quietness are akin to standing in a field with the farm bull saying what a lovely fellow he is, no need to worry, he wouldn't harm a fly....and the next week it is shot for goring a farmworker to death. Totally Irresponsible.

5. I have the responsibility for this project and am in partnership with the Co-op in doing so. The scheme in no way threatens Plan B and can run happily alongside it..

You might not feel it threatens Plan B, and the Co-Op in their ivory tower might not understand the real issues either. But I and a number on the forum here believe that it flies in the face of the cosy marketing the Co-Op has been behind with Plan B and they will be affected by association with the packages

6. All is open and above board, thoroughly legal, and subject to intense scrutiny. Local bee inspector will be invited to see it all happen..

A local bee Inspector ? Just One ? I would want a whole team of them checking each colony once they are established. I wonder how effective his eye will be on his 295th colony ?! I have not suggested it is illegal, unethical yes.

7. Every scrap of gear is brand new. no used gear coming in. Perhaps offensive to some here, but in all honesty I fear UK bee disease far more than anything these bees might have with them. The inspection and certification regime they are produced and imported under is second to none. The do come from a provenance free of most problems, ie SHB and EFB totally absent..

And if you are intending to travel to the area on a regular basis I presume that, quite rightly you will personally take every effort to ensure you follow common sense procedures to prevent EFB from being transported into the area from your hot spot ?

8. Local bee associations are invited to arrange visits to the unit, see the bees, handle them, and generally see that there is nothing to fear. These bees will not pollute your local gene pool. Thye were visited by several groups in Scotland last year, including several black bee afficionados. ( It might surprise you that most of our colonies actually ARE blacks.) The impression they left was remarkable and many requests for queens have been forthcoming. Please, if you are local to the area get in touch with your association secretary and arrange a visit. Alternatively I will be in the area myself every couple of weeks and am happy to fit in visits to associations and give them a talk on the scheme and our beekeeping in general..

To most Black Bee afficionados, one black bee looks the same as another, a bit like painting a white Simmental cow black and saying it's a dexter. Most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference. I have no issue with the 'Scheme/project' but I object most strongly with the way it is being populated.

These are really good bees, not at all as widely described in some of the few posts I have read. I know very well what I am doing and do not intend to be any kind of threat to anyone. I appreciate that this forum is the home of the black bee movement and that coming online here may be a bit daft, but having had some of the comments relayed to me that were way wide of the mark thought I had better post to answer the rumours. Factual questions welcomed, and I will do my best to answer them.

I don't know that this forum is the home of the black bee movement - we are a real mixed bag here I can tell you, but there is a core who want absolutely nothing to do with the BBKA (search some of the threads for info). I and others are not (I hope) trying to make your life (or the Co-Ops a misery for the sake of it. I am a rational person and take great care in my posts, and spend alot of time considering replies. I, and I am sure a number of others here with some beekeeping experience, do have very real concerns about the impact this project WILL have on the local bee gene pool. You will note in my reply to 'Naomi' (from her automated replies one wonders if she is real!?) I state the known fact that the site at Cirencester won't support 300 colonies, unless you intend to undertake migratory beekeeping from that location, in which case state this now please.

I welcome your answers, I also hope that you will take into consideration our concerns. But I for one will not be fobbed off.

regards

Somerford

 

[gavin]

obviously many were concerned with NZ carnies flooding the area which you have assured us is not the case.

Hi there ITLD

I was thinking of wandering up to see you sometime soon - are you at your base on Saturdays? I need to spend some money - not on bees but equipment. I've avoided commenting on this so far, but ....

Yes, the bees were lovely bees. The gentlest bees I've ever seen, and when placed on new foundation from packages will be healthy stocks for a year or two.

I'm assuming that these bees are from the same source as the ones I saw. I guess that I was one of these native bee officianados who stopped by? If so, they may have been bred in N Europe before being shipped to NZ, but their evolutionary home is SE Europe, so they are not 'dark bees of N European origin' in the way most people would understand it. Some folk seem to have read your comments as implying that they are near native types but they clearly are not. Ruttner's multivariate analysis decades ago and recent DNA sequencing shows that these bees are at the opposite end of an evolutionary branched pathway from the native stocks which still dominate the genetics in parts of the UK. The hybrids will be vigorous and the derivatives rather variable.

'These bees will not pollute your local gene pool.' How can you say that? They *will* for sure. They will add significantly to the rush of imported non-native stocks where they land up. The books - and experience of several contemporary beekeepers - suggest that Carnie x native cross derivatives can be amongst the nastiest of bees around. I know that you don't believe it to be true, but that is what others say.

This initiative is really quite far from the sustainable beekeeping idea that the Co-op like to promote.

Oh, and I wouldn't regard this forum as being the home of dark bee officianados. There are other fora with more enthusiasts, and my first forays onto this one saw me tangle with Mike Roberts over his supply of carnies to a croft in a sensitive area of Varroa-free native bees in Wester Ross - and I was criticised by several posters then!

all the best

Gavin

 

[Poly Hive]

Somerford?

The person you are addressing is organising the bees, not running them.

Myself I cannot see anyone who is attempting to run 300 colonies being static. They would be migratory, I know I would be.

PH

 

[hedgerow pete]

well so far i was impressed that ITLD came on the website, great postings and a good source we can now ask direct questions to.

the next biggie for me is the fact that the COOP are not brave enough to do the same, shame how office cowards hide whilst lesser hands on people face the onslaught.

to me , to be able to run 300 hives or more to me you have to be mobile i can see them being static placed. and i was under the impression that they were going to be sited on the COOP farms at these two areas, thats a lot of bees for two small farms.

but anyway i digress, its not up to anyone here to question thier business plan just the ethics of the queen importing and setting up i belive was the touchey point

 

[Into the lions den]

We'll see about that. 600 colonies will throw swarms, what %, well your guess is as good as mine, but it will happen

That is why two of my trained staff will be resident there. No management system of prospering bees can ever say there will never be a swarm. Our job is to minimise it.




Your effort to demonstrate the bees quietness are akin to standing in a field with the farm bull saying what a lovely fellow he is, no need to worry, he wouldn't harm a fly....and the next week it is shot for goring a farmworker to death. Totally Irresponsible.

Your opinion. It is not mines, and I have worked with these bees for many years. Come and see and work with the bees before you paint them with that brush.




A local bee Inspector ? Just One ? I would want a whole team of them checking each colony once they are established. I wonder how effective his eye will be on his 295th colony ?! I have not suggested it is illegal, unethical yes.

'The' local bee inspector means the regional one. what size of team he chooses to bring on site is his concern. I would politely suggest that these bees are not coming into a disease free heaven, and the biggest worry is about what they will catch, not what they will transmit.




And if you are intending to travel to the area on a regular basis I presume that, quite rightly you will personally take every effort to ensure you follow common sense procedures to prevent EFB from being transported into the area from your hot spot ?

What exactly are you alluding to here? I have already made it clear that the highest standard of bio security will be in operation and that nothing used will be in the unit whatsoever. the bee vehicle on site will be sterile and freshly delivered from the paint shop in Skipton, so no bee residues or anything coming down. Not even used gloves or bee suits.


I don't know that this forum is the home of the black bee movement -

Having read some of the posts I accept that..........the original invite to come and put a case was adressed to me as 'come to the forum for the promotion of the British black bee'......sorry if that was wrong.

...........................................................................................
I state the known fact that the site at Cirencester won't support 300 colonies, unless you intend to undertake migratory beekeeping from that location, in which case state this now please.


How is it a known fact? Heresay and assumption do not a fact make. I have all the acreages sown already. There is ample sown forage. so, please tell me how it is a known fact? Unless nearly 1000 acres of OSR and several hundred acres of beans is not enough?

Migratory beekeeping is an option under consideration, but ample sowings of borage and phacelia are being done for the benefit of both the resident colonies and those around the area, and migration may not be required. Suck it and see situation. For sure the only major movement if any will be to heather at an area yet to be selected.

Much is being made of Down Ampney, but in reality this is a multi location venture, and the home premises is to be at that place, however there are three other farms satellites of that unit and four farms in herefordshire all part of the project. the idea that they are to be dumped down in one place is erroneous.


I welcome your answers, I also hope that you will take into consideration our concerns. But I for one will not be fobbed off.

I have nothing to hide, do not intend to fob anyone off (had that exact expression in several submissions) and as I have said already, am happy to visit local associations, host visits by them, and demonstrate the project is not a threat and is perfectly sustainable.

 

[fox403]

Its a funny thing this queen worry what is it that worrys us the amount he is shipping in? If it was say 30 queens would that have been ok ? Or are we saying that's it no to all imports

Sent from my GT-P1000 using Tapatalk

 

[Somerford]

'The' local bee inspector means the regional one. what size of team he chooses to bring on site is his concern. I would politely suggest that these bees are not coming into a disease free heaven, and the biggest worry is about what they will catch, not what they will transmit..

From your reply I can merely interpret that we need to shout more loudly at the relevant authorities to ensure all colonies are thoroughly inspected then ?!

And if you are intending to travel to the area on a regular basis I presume that, quite rightly you will personally take every effort to ensure you follow common sense procedures to prevent EFB from being transported into the area from your hot spot ?[/COLOR

What exactly are you alluding to here? I have already made it clear that the highest standard of bio security will be in operation and that nothing used will be in the unit whatsoever. the bee vehicle on site will be sterile and freshly delivered from the paint shop in Skipton, so no bee residues or anything coming down. Not even used gloves or bee suits.

I am alluding to that fact that migratory beekeeping/beekeepers can and do spread bee diseases. Varroa wasn't spread just by swarming alone, and nor is AFB/EFB, and neither will future bee diseases that will no doubt invade our shores. I do hope you adhere a very rigourous policy of apiary hygiene especially operating on this scale in my locality

Having read some of the posts I accept that..........the original invite to come and put a case was adressed to me as 'come to the forum for the promotion of the British black bee'......sorry if that was wrong.

...........................................................................................
I state the known fact that the site at Cirencester won't support 300 colonies, unless you intend to undertake migratory beekeeping from that location, in which case state this now please..

No need to apologise !

How is it a known fact? Heresay and assumption do not a fact make. I have all the acreages sown already. There is ample sown forage. so, please tell me how it is a known fact? Unless nearly 1000 acres of OSR and several hundred acres of beans is not enough?.

Well, according to the outgoing beefarmer, he (and I do not doubt his words) stated to me that the site struggled to supply sufficient nectar outside the OSR flow in the past season, his view ? even 100 hives were too many for the site to support. I hope you are proven wrong but it won't bode well for any local beekeeper who's bees are fighting for the same pot as competiton has just been increased 3 fold.

Migratory beekeeping is an option under consideration, but ample sowings of borage and phacelia are being done for the benefit of both the resident colonies and those around the area, and migration may not be required. Suck it and see situation. For sure the only major movement if any will be to heather at an area yet to be selected. .

Thank you for being honest - so the issue of the genes from the imported bees will therefore affect even more locations than those already identified.

Much is being made of Down Ampney, but in reality this is a multi location venture, and the home premises is to be at that place, however there are three other farms satellites of that unit and four farms in herefordshire all part of the project. the idea that they are to be dumped down in one place is erroneous..

100/200/300 ... it matters little per location....what matters is the issue of imported genes affecting the naturalised bee gene pool, something you appear to be sidestepping (and indeed so too the Co-Op in their replies so far)

I welcome your answers, I also hope that you will take into consideration our concerns. But I for one will not be fobbed off.

I have nothing to hide, do not intend to fob anyone off (had that exact expression in several submissions) and as I have said already, am happy to visit local associations, host visits by them, and demonstrate the project is not a threat and is perfectly sustainable.

You might well regret that...I mean that in jest, as we are in the process of organsing a Beekeeping Forum Meet in 2011 and you'll be horrified to learn it isn't a million miles away from Cirencester ! Mind you, I'm not sure what we would gain, other than interest in looking at a big bee operation..

regards

S

 

[peteinwilts]

Hi ITLD

I have a great deal of respect for you coming onto the forum, and your login is very apt!

welcome to the forum, by the way!

I understand what you are trying to achieve, and hope the results will be a gentle bee and does well for education. I also hope the concerns of members of the forum (including myself) are unfounded.

Once you have your 400 (?) colony's set up at Down Ampney, how will you be preventing their swarming instict? Are you planning on building further colony's, or are you going to be selling NUC's, or destroying them?
Obviously, the bees are going to want to breed... Last year swarming in the area was exceptional. After a warm couple of weeks in April came a very cold May. Then came a hot morning and all the colony's swarmed after being unable to inspect due to the weather being too cold. This happen to numerous people I know, and would have no idea how you would prevent it.

I do not have enough experience of whether what you are doing is a bad thing. I can only see by the press and educational programs that whenever bees are shipped around the world, problems are also shipped around the world (Varroa, SHB, AFB, EFB Israeli disease etc etc). Of course the press brings the worst out in people.

I am not impressed with the CO-OP and their British Black Bee project and their ethics. How can they possibly bee supporting the import of foreign bees AND promoting the British Black Bee.
It would be like Nick Griffin hiring Polish Migrants to deliver BNP leaflets. (no offence to either the BNP or the Polish!)
I DO understand though you are with the CO-OP by association and not making their policies.

As a concerned local, I would be very happy to be invited to the farm to see what you are doing. I am sure other locals on the forum would also be interested in an invite, and not just those in the totalitarian BBKA..

I would also be very happy to challenge your swarm control with the use of a few trees on the perimeter of the farm.
... I am afraid I would have to requeen, and\or pass her back to you though...

Thanks
Pete

 

[DanBee]

Somerford - you're just not reading the replies, are you? It seems clear you've made up your mind already, and just want to kick up a fuss. ITLD seems happy to be open and to ignored the pointed comments, yet you are unwilling to consider responses...?

Take an example - you're still ranting that the site won't support more than 100 colonies. Yet in his/her previous reply, ITLD stated both that significant areas of arable crop and wildflower planting were being undertaken on the farms to support the beekeeping initiative, and that the total number of colonies would be spread over a number of distant farms. So it is highly likely that 100 or less colonies might be destined for the one site you are discussing, and that additional forage will be available throughout the year. I suspect from your stance that you have never migrated colonies between flowering crops, and so are unaware of how to plan such movements based upon forage availability.

 

[DanBee]

whenever bees are shipped around the world, problems are also shipped around the world (Varroa, SHB, AFB, EFB Israeli disease etc etc).

Pete - you've raised a point that several before you have raised, yet nobody has substantiated. Assuming that the colonies are inspected and found to be free of tropilaelaps and SHB, which of these other diseases do we already have?

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, in reply to an alarmist list of diseases that imports could bring in:

AFB. - got
Varroa. - got
Nosema ceranae. - got
Small hive beetle. - not got
chronic bee paaiysis - got
kashmir bee virus - got
black queen cel Virus - got
sacbrood virus - got
Tracheal mite - got
Amoeba - got
Wax moth.- got (twice!)
Chalkbrood - got
Bee louse - got
Asian mite - ???

So which of these are you worried about imports bringing into the country that aren't already here?!

 

[Somerford]

Somerford - you're just not reading the replies, are you? It seems clear you've made up your mind already, and just want to kick up a fuss. ITLD seems happy to be open and to ignored the pointed comments, yet you are unwilling to consider responses...?

Take an example - you're still ranting that the site won't support more than 100 colonies. Yet in his/her previous reply, ITLD stated both that significant areas of arable crop and wildflower planting were being undertaken on the farms to support the beekeeping initiative, and that the total number of colonies would be spread over a number of distant farms. So it is highly likely that 100 or less colonies might be destined for the one site you are discussing, and that additional forage will be available throughout the year. I suspect from your stance that you have never migrated colonies between flowering crops, and so are unaware of how to plan such movements based upon forage availability.

err, Dan I think you'll find I AM

I am not ranting, I am expressing my concerns. That you cannot tell the difference explains well and truely which side of the fence you sit.

I state my claim due to the fact I have spoken FIRST HAND with the previous incumbant beefarmer at Down Ampney who STATED to me he was of the mind that even 100 colonies would struggle on the available forage...this I have already stated here...please re-read my responses !

In addition, the Co-Op asked the previous bee farmer to place well over 200 colonies on the site which he refused to do, for the reason stated above.

I trust his judgement.

Oh, and you presume wrongly. I have, can and DO migrate colonies between flowering crops, albeit on a far smaller scale than yourself or ITLD. Does that make me any less qualified to either have an opinion or be worthy of having an opinion on this matter.....I think NOT. This is a democratic forum.

kind regards

S

 

[Somerford]

Pete - you've raised a point that several before you have raised, yet nobody has substantiated. Assuming that the colonies are inspected and found to be free of tropilaelaps and SHB, which of these other diseases do we already have?

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, in reply to an alarmist list of diseases that imports could bring in:



So which of these are you worried about imports bringing into the country that aren't already here?!

Come on reel your neck in a little Dan





FACT - Varroa was not in this country historically

FACT - it could only have been brought in either through a wild swarm or imported colonies

FACT - the rapid spread of it was increased by migrating colonies managed by beekeepers, both commercial and hobbyist before the true extent of the pest were known

FACT - not enough was done about it, nor enough resources were in place to check colonies, and have in place a total standstill order countrywide

FACT - we still don't have enough resources in place to prevent another outbreak of a notifiable disease that is alien to these shores from spreading

FACT - we continue to routinely import bees from around the world that could be infected with one or other diease/pest we don't currently have

FACT - to ignore the above is, in my mind, totally irresponsible.


Do you disagree with any of the above ? this is what this thread is all about (oh and the effect on the local gene pool)



What I have real confusion with is that YOU appear to have the most to lose should this fine island become infected with one or more of the many pests and diseases we are all worried about....and you appear to be oblivious to this, or seem not to care.

Good luck to you


regards

S

 

[peteinwilts]

Pete - you've raised a point that several before you have raised, yet nobody has substantiated. Assuming that the colonies are inspected and found to be free of tropilaelaps and SHB, which of these other diseases do we already have?


So which of these are you worried about imports bringing into the country that aren't already here?!

Do all of these nastys come as a single strain or are there varients around the world? The genetic makeup of the nastys will vary from country to country. Evolution is faster with critters with a shorter lifespan (the countless variants of the Flu virus being an example)... just because a disease is already here, does not mean we should just not bother... ia ITLD rightly says, his bees are also at risk from ours!

My point with the list that I mentioned is a historic one. i presume the bees that entered the country that gave us Varroa were inspected!?! There was no excuse of not knowing about it as it was described nearly a century before it arrived.... but still it was brought.

I appreciate that the bees will be looked at by very knowledgible people and I am not educated or experienced enough to know what other possible bee related bugs are on foreign shores waiting to come in.

 

[oliver90owner]

Two out of 200 threw castes in 2010.

Exactly what do you mean by that? To me that means multiple swarming! So how many threw a prime swarm? How long were these bees in the UK? In a scottish environment, those statistics can be misleading in isolation

Nicely avoided that question first time round. So let me ask again. What exactly did you mean? Were you trying to lay a red herring? Mention of casts instead of 'swarms' immediately rings alarm bells for me, especially when the poster then ignores the request for clarification.

RAB

 

[Hivemaker.]

Viruses,such as IAPV,but they don't test the bee's for viruses.