Import of NZ bees into UK

[Into the lions den]

Regards testing imported Queens for viruses,i was interested in this so asked them while on the phone a couple of weeks ago,not Mike Brown as he was away,but his next in command...and he is obviously a liar,as he stated they do not test them for viruses.

Probably not a liar. Thats very harsh. Did anyone say it was the NBU that tested them? I did not, and it was done from the Scottish govt lab site anyway, and i just do no actually know where they sent them. ROUTINE imports of queens are not generally tested for viruses, and in that respect and with the question as you asked it, you probably got a spot on answer.

 

[DanBee]

i know its a lot to ask and i can see it being turned down whole sale but since you are only the one part of the project any chance of asking the coop to join in on the debate.

What would you expect that to achieve? Do you think you'd get more than the template reply that others have received? True, it would allow a few individuals to look big in front of their mates by bashing a necessarily non-commital spokesperson... but is that productive?

Given that you have the beekeeper involved answering questions here, I would expect that to be your most productive line of enquiry. Persevere!

 

[mbc]

The import of bees on combs, even whole hives, from within the EU only, is perfectly legal. ( If unwise.)

It happens. A LOT of it happens. Under the Balaii directive it is illegal for one member state to exclude the animals or animal products of another member state on the basis of a pest or disease that is already present in the destination state. Health certificate issue by the authorities at point of origin required, forwarded direct (not with the bees or their shipper) to the authority at destination. End of story. If you want to ban all that you have to ask the UK govt to rip up its trade agreements, and for the sake of bees that is not going to happen.

2010. The Pyrenees. Friend of mines, employing one of my staff from 2009. Price for NUCS (5 bars) to UK reached stupid levels. Split up several hundred colonies into nucs..........all collected by a variety of UK beekeepers and resellers...1500 units........and remember this is ONE outfit, several were doing it in France and Spain....all destined to the UK. Number of recorded imports? So far as I know NONE of the 1500 turned up in any records.

In the single market the only role of the authorities at the docks/airports is to ensure that the transporter knows what they are doing and that they are being treated properly. the health function is between the originating and destination local authorities. It is different for non EU imports, and apart from NZ, only queens are allowed, where an inspection is carried out at the Animal reception centre at Heathrow.

We live in the real world and utopian ideas are very nice but this trade is huge, and no matter where you are in southern Britain there will be imported stock near you NOW.

Thanks for coming on the forum and helping to alay our fears about this project somewhat.
To me the importation of bees on frames you have just described is far scarier than the coop project

 

[Into the lions den]

ITLD,

i know its a lot to ask and i can see it being turned down whole sale but since you are only the one part of the project any chance of asking the coop to join in on the debate.
.

It had been suggested internally already that someone could come on to give their take on things. However it is a corporate body with many people doing many minor functions adding up to the corporate effort. So just who do you want on here? is the PR girl? the press officer? The accounts dept of co-op farms? the individual farm managers? The account manager responsible for the 'produced by us' honey concept? (Sorry, she has just gone to work for Fairtrade, and will be replaced shortly.)

Answer is that there is not any single individual that I can think of in the chain there who would be suitably qualified to give overarching responses to the questions. It would have little benefit to anyone to have any self appointed 'big dog' wipe the floor with a sincere young girl with incomplete knowledge. Chat forums are for individuals, and as far as the Co-op project goes the nearest you will get to a person with the full picture is me. I cannot talk about what goes on within their management structure and any hidden motivations they may have (although it seems to me like it is nothing sinister at all), but I CAN talk about this project, having more knowledge of it than anyone else.

fwiw I am on here without the sanction of the Co-op. I am here because the more I heard was being said the more frustrated I became at the misinformation and conclusion jumping. You have me here now, probably till Monday when I start doing a lot of travelling.

 

[Hughesie]

Can you ask the Co-op to clearly state on the front of their labels that the origin of their honey bee's is New Zealand .

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

Can you ask the Co-op to clearly state on the front of their labels that the origin of their honey bee's is New Zealand .

Sorry Hughsie, but why on earth should they? The producers of the honey will have been born and raised in the UK - first generation migrants if you like!

 

[Hughesie]

You can guarantee that there sales label will have "British" all over it and I would like the consumer to be informed that the bee's that established the colony in the hive where the honey was produced were imported into the country from New Zealand.

its a fair request ,

 

[Norton]

It is not permitted anyway under EU labeling regulations

 

[Hughesie]

It is not permitted anyway under EU labeling regulations

I think you will find that is its origin is from the EU

 

[dilys]

My understanding is that the EU only specify minimum information required on labels. You can add anything you like provided it's true and not misleading.

 

[Skyhook]

I'm not sure what this wonderful pure gene pool is we're supposed to be protecting. My queen is the grand-daughter of a NZ carnolian. I may be mistaken, but aren't the honeybees in NZ From Europaean stock originally? I don't know anyone who has native bees, and most people on here are very pleased with their 'local mongrels'. I think any importation of bees needs probably stricter biosecurity than has been the norm in the past (See Nortons posts on someone hijacking his identity for 'grey' imports), but it sounds as if best practice is being employed here. I think mass importation is a problem in general, but surely working to reduce that as a whole is better than taking pot shots at one project which sounds as if it's being undertaken more carefully than most.

 

[Into the lions den]

Can you ask the Co-op to clearly state on the front of their labels that the origin of their honey bee's is New Zealand .

I find this question a bit odd. Origin of the actual bees is not mentioned on any packaging that I am aware of. If you wanted that you would also have to decide where your baseline lay. In this case you would probably have to give about 4 nationalities, and NZ is just an incidental one as it is just used as an early season (late for them) breeding ground.

The honey will be British. All the bees producing it (as mentioned already) will be British born and raised on British pollen. The unit producing it will be British. The producer will be members of all the appropriate associations (BFA and local groups) and will try to integrate into the local beekeeping community. The product will be identical in every way to that of any other producer in the area. ( Until we beekeepers get our paws on and have the potential to present it badly.)

The Co-op and large packers sell British honey. Much of that will be produced by bees of a plethora of origins, yet the honey is identical. It does not have to have been produced by local A.m.m. to be British honey.

Even if it were, you come back to 'Where do you draw the baseline?'. Local A.m.m.? Go back far enough and you would find non native lines incorporated in there, especially back in the post I.O.W. years.

How many labels do you want them to have? After all honey produced on their various farms is bought in by them from a range of beekeepers. There will be a variety of racial types and origins over the last few years. No doubt the following at least will be included:- New Zealand, Australia, Hawaii, UK, France, Slovenia, Greece, Cyprus, Denmark, Germany, Italy. Also possibly to some extent Ireland, Portugal, Spain, Poland, Czech republic, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Macedonia, Croatia, Argentina.

Why just focus on the bees? Brassica napus and Brassica campestris (OSR) are not native plants........neither are the Vicia family (beans)......Borage? Phacelia?

What about the Polish girls in the extracting plant? My Lithuanian chargehand that works for me on our main unit? My senior bee manager has a foreign name.....Jolanta........?

No. This is a British product, as good in any way as if it had been produced in that famous pinnacle of excellence, the non-commercial A.m.m. unit. We will be proud of the product and the customers will like it.

 

[Into the lions den]

Can you ask the Co-op to clearly state on the front of their labels that the origin of their honey bee's is New Zealand .

And I forgot...

Hives themselves.............Germany, Denmark, Sweden
Nuc boxes................Canada
Excluders................USA
Frames..............USA and Lithuania
Foundation..............New Zealand
Frame wire, eyelets............China
Frame nails.............China
Syrup feeding.............Belgium
Bee trucks.............Germany

Just where do you want to draw the line? Where it is NOW is the only sensible answer short of having a yellow star attached to each jar with 'Warning! FOREIGN input present.'

 

[peteinwilts]

And I forgot...

Hives themselves.............Germany, Denmark, Sweden
Nuc boxes................Canada
Excluders................USA
Frames..............USA and Lithuania
Foundation..............New Zealand
Frame wire, eyelets............China
Frame nails.............China
Syrup feeding.............Belgium
Bee trucks.............Germany

Just where do you want to draw the line? Where it is NOW is the only sensible answer short of having a yellow star attached to each jar with 'Warning! FOREIGN input present.'

whatever happened to the 'Buy British' slogan

 

[Hughesie]

ITTD , Theres always 10000 reasons not to do something and boy you seem to find most of them . My request was ASK the Co-op if they could put a statement on their label , thats all .

 

[Hughesie]

Pete , I have been saying this for years , I assume that as we are part of the EU we are unable to run this campaign , bollocks !.

The sooner we pull out of the EU the better , but thats another forum !!

ITTHD , perhaps you could be the campaign manager

 

[Into the lions den]

whatever happened to the 'Buy British' slogan

Price. Availability. Quality. Willingness to work to our specifications.

Simple examples.

Frames. UK frames are simply DIRE. The lugs are weak and the structure is flimsy. We have our own design made for us in Lithuania that do not break.
UK frames are grossly overpriced. Alternative supplier in the USA. I buy only perfects, extra strong versions, and they cost about 40p landed here. 3 times the price for half the quality anyone? Supplied at a time decided by the supplier not the customer? No thank you.

Foundation? 48p a sheet for THICK Langstroth deep (10 sheets to the kilo, and made as WE want it). All the way from New Zealand and with analysis certificates for the wax and a guarantee of no EFB transmission. Get that anywhere else?

 

[DanBee]

ITTD , Theres always 10000 reasons not to do something and boy you seem to find most of them . My request was ASK the Co-op if they could put a statement on their label , thats all .

But a statement about what? I believe that was the gist of ITLD's reply...!

 

[Into the lions den]

ITTD , Theres always 10000 reasons not to do something and boy you seem to find most of them . .

That is reverse reasoning.

My decisions are not born out of resistance to doing things, they are born out of seeing how a thing should be best done. Positive decision making not negative.

Your labelling idea is not practical and has no relevance to the honey quality. It would have enormous implications for the entire British bee industry, unless of course you want the Co-op alone to self stigmatise their product, albeit in the eyes of relatively few people.

In terms of who has done anything to help the British bee industry, especially at amateur level, they are second to none. The term 'bite the hand that feeds you' springs to mind. Beekeepers of all scales seem extremely good at that.

 

[peteinwilts]

Price. Availability. Quality. Willingness to work to our specifications.

Simple examples.

Frames. UK frames are simply DIRE. The lugs are weak and the structure is flimsy. We have our own design made for us in Lithuania that do not break.
UK frames are grossly overpriced. Alternative supplier in the USA. I buy only perfects, extra strong versions, and they cost about 40p landed here. 3 times the price for half the quality anyone? Supplied at a time decided by the supplier not the customer? No thank you.

Foundation? 48p a sheet for THICK Langstroth deep (10 sheets to the kilo, and made as WE want it). All the way from New Zealand and with analysis certificates for the wax and a guarantee of no EFB transmission. Get that anywhere else?

Couldn't agree more... many of the foreign countries have good QA systems, believe in quality and have a willingness to work.

Our country has 'yoofs' that don't give a crap (our company has several yoofs who can't spell, count and do as little as possible between coming in and going home... we can sack them and get more, but must are the same)

it seems as if each generation is taking a step backwards. Parents are also to blame (if not the reason!). The 'I' generation expects everything to be handed on a plate and doing little for it, and gets it.
My daughter is the same... I have different ethics, and when she does not get what she wants all of the time she has tantrums because her posh friends are given them by their parents.

The UK is grossly overpriced, but that is due to our cost of living is so much higher forcing prices to go up further. The UK has been shooting itself in the foot for years!