Import of NZ bees into UK

[Friar Tuck]

To be honest i dont think the co-op gives a sh*t about the bees. I think they have to be seen to be doing something, It is IMO a marketing ploy. And the person tasked with giving the response wrote one email saved it into the outbox then send the same email to everyone that asks. I do exactly the same thing at work.

You cant of expected an individual response from a corporate!

 

[picton farm]

I just spoke to Naomi who sent that email and she has spoken to the farm this morning to confirm that they are not importing packaged bees, but queens from NZ. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable than me should talk to them to get the facts straight about who exactly they are dealing with. She says that the bees are being sourced locally and the queens are imported. They seem quite open about what they are doing but I dont know much about all this so I am not the best person to have the conversation. If something worrying is going on then we have to get our facts right or anything we say will be discredited and therefore we will not have any impact on the situation. The contact no for plan b is 01618341212

 

[BobH1]

The key phrase in this response is "Due to the lack of availability of native British black bees..."

If we want to encourage people not to import then we need to resolve that issue.

 

[greatbritishhoney]

The key phrase in this response is "Due to the lack of availability of native British black bees..."

If we want to encourage people not to import then we need to resolve that issue.

What I don't understand is why they think British Black bees and NZ bees are the only two options. Yes, I personally favour AMM but if I couldn't get them I'd rather have a locally bred mongrel with good qualities rather than an import. The simple answer is that they want a quick set-up and they want all their queens from one source, and no one in the UK can give them that. So, in the interests of keeping up with demand they are happy to forget british bees and go with whatever is easiest and cheapest (just like the supermarkets always do).

 

[hedgerow pete]

sorry bobh1

if there was a millon spare english black nucs all on 7 frames crammed with bees,and for sale at £45 each they would still be at the bottom of my list if i was a commercial bee farmer, hybrids all the way if you want to make money from them.

what we could do with a massive amount of new nucs and queens is to flood and control the domestic bee keeper market, laws of supply and demand etc. by bringing the nuc price down to a more sensble cost of £50 to £75 and then having most of the uks bee keepers considering them and it then becoming a possible affordable hobby to many others so increasing even more numbers, we would then start to look like a viable idea to the commercal boys

dont forget that the uk bee keeping set up is that the majority of the keepers are hobbiests, i was told a few years ago at the spring show it was some thing like

50% of all the bees are owned and controled by 15% of the people in the commercial sector as it were ,

whilst that means that 50% of the hives are then owned by 85% of the general public /hobbiest keepers.

this is why this guy was so intrested in only selling his gear to hobby keepers as he ment he could sell thousands of its rather than a few to commercial boys.

 

[Into the lions den]

Misinformation.

I have not had time to read all the stuff on the forum, I would be here all day. However, suffice to say that I AM the bee farmer involved with the Co-op on this scheme and have come here out of some frustration at the misinformation being spread about the scheme.

Some of the information is plainly misunderstood, some of it downright malicious and attempting to rouse up protest, and some of it is accurate.

1. There is NO involvement of any other producer or reseller. So the particular ghost that has been raised you can put to bed. ( I am presuming it is a certain Mr. Roberts that is meant.) Do not know where that story came from.

2. I know EXACTLY what I am getting. The stock has been vetted, examined, checked for everything under the sun, and has been running in the first Co-op unit in Scotland. No middle men involved, direct from the actual breeder.

3. Sorry for those who think they will swarm all over the place. Two out of 200 threw castes in 2010. They are intensively managed, and resident staff will be in place at all times and they will be on a full and rigorous 10 day inspection cycle.

4. They are not yellow bees. They are a dark strain of northern european origin and are perfectly well adapted to the UK climate. They are industrious, and very winter hardy, yet so gentle children can (and have done) been able to open hives, take out brood combs, feel the warmth of the bees, and not get stung. This without smoke or protective clothing. (It was my own children btw, and my 18 month old grandson too was watching and pointing. If you call that stupid or rash then all I can say is you have not seen or worked with these deightful bees.)

5. I have the responsibility for this project and am in partnership with the Co-op in doing so. The scheme in no way threatens Plan B and can run happily alongside it.

6. All is open and above board, thoroughly legal, and subject to intense scrutiny. Local bee inspector will be invited to see it all happen.

7. Every scrap of gear is brand new. no used gear coming in. Perhaps offensive to some here, but in all honesty I fear UK bee disease far more than anything these bees might have with them. The inspection and certification regime they are produced and imported under is second to none. The do come from a provenance free of most problems, ie SHB and EFB totally absent.

8. Local bee associations are invited to arrange visits to the unit, see the bees, handle them, and generally see that there is nothing to fear. These bees will not pollute your local gene pool. Thye were visited by several groups in Scotland last year, including several black bee afficionados. ( It might surprise you that most of our colonies actually ARE blacks.) The impression they left was remarkable and many requests for queens have been forthcoming. Please, if you are local to the area get in touch with your association secretary and arrange a visit. Alternatively I will be in the area myself every couple of weeks and am happy to fit in visits to associations and give them a talk on the scheme and our beekeeping in general.

These are really good bees, not at all as widely described in some of the few posts I have read. I know very well what I am doing and do not intend to be any kind of threat to anyone. I appreciate that this forum is the home of the black bee movement and that coming online here may be a bit daft, but having had some of the comments relayed to me that were way wide of the mark thought I had better post to answer the rumours. Factual questions welcomed, and I will do my best to answer them.

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

Very good retort ITLD - no idea if it will appease all (unlikely) , but its made me want to come and cuddle up to those little furry balls of fun!

 

[oliver90owner]

I am against the packages of workers primarily. The queen issue is secondary, but iportant,too.


Castes is the wrong word, btw; it is casts.

There is NO involvement of any other producer or reseller. You are an agent for the Coop? I could not be sure, but a Scottish beefarmer had been mentioned as the intermediary.


Two out of 200 threw castes in 2010.

Exactly what do you mean by that? To me that means multiple swarming! So how many threw a prime swarm? How long were these bees in the UK? In a scottish environment, those statistics can be misleading in isolation

10 day inspection cycle.

The queens will all be clipped, I presume?

All is open and above board, thoroughly legal,

I am sure it is. I think the ethics of the whole operation are being debated not the legality or otherwise.

free of most problems, ie SHB and EFB totally absent. That may be so, but 'most' is 'most'; what about the 'rest'?

So this will be 600 packages of bees imported over two seasons or three? That is 50% worse than I thought. Sooner or later the worst will happen.

I still say we don't want package bees from the antipodes.

RAB

 

[greatbritishhoney]

For me, the problem is not with you ITLD, it is the fact that The Co-Op like to make a big splash about corporate responsibility and sustainability whilst importing large quantities of bees/queens. It's not sustainable and it's very much against the public trend for locally reared produce (which is what the co-op supposed prides itself on).

 

[Friar Tuck]

Fair Play on coming onto the forum ITLD

 

[greatbritishhoney]

Fair Play on coming onto the forum ITLD

 

[madasafish]

it is the fact that The Co-Op like to make a big splash about corporate responsibility and sustainability whilst importing large quantities of bees/queens

Will the outout be British grown produce (honey)? Yes.
Can the Co-Op get the needed bees and queens locally - in the required volumes and the required quality when they want it? From what I have seen and read... no chance.

It's OK to criticise the Co-Op if they had a viable alternative to imports... As far as I see, TINA.. (there is no alternative).

So the Co-Op are being pragmatic. What is there to criticise on that front?

As far as I see, it is sustainable and responsible...

 

[greatbritishhoney]

it is the fact that The Co-Op like to make a big splash about corporate responsibility and sustainability whilst importing large quantities of bees/queens

Will the outout be British grown produce (honey)? Yes.
Can the Co-Op get the needed bees and queens locally - in the required volumes and the required quality when they want it? From what I have seen and read... no chance.

It's OK to criticise the Co-Op if they had a viable alternative to imports... As far as I see, TINA.. (there is no alternative).

So the Co-Op are being pragmatic. What is there to criticise on that front?

As far as I see, it is sustainable and responsible...

Because they don't HAVE to do it. Just because there is a demand doesn't mean you have to supply it. That's what ethics is all about - putting principles before money.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Factual questions welcomed, and I will do my best to answer them.

Why are you not raising the Queens you need yourself,600 or a 1000 Queens would not be much of a problem,obviously not early...or is it a race against time.
Do you think this large volume of imported Queens may have some impact on others in the area who appear to be making some headway in rearing varroa resistant stocks,like Ron Hoskins..or are these imported Queens vsh,so may well be beneficial.

 

[madasafish]

Because they don't HAVE to do it. Just because there is a demand doesn't mean you have to supply it. That's what ethics is all about - putting principles before money.

Hmm so let the CO-op import honey instead? From China perhaps?


Sustainable? Responsible? Commercial?

 

[greatbritishhoney]

Hmm so let the CO-op import honey instead? From China perhaps?


Sustainable? Responsible? Commercial?

They don't have to do that either. They don't HAVE to sell honey at all. I know I'm making a philosophical argument here and I don't want to hijack the thread but there always seems to be this assumption that businesses are driven by some unstoppable force. Surely corporate resposibility is when a company decides to do or not to do something for moral/ethical/environmental reasons.

 

[Somerford]

response from CoOp on NZ bees

All. The response I received from the COOP today. If anyone wants the email, I'll post it. I have responded in kind as this is a bloody disgrace !!!!

Hello Stephen


Thanks for your enquiry into our Bee Keeping project at Down Ampney (Gloucestershire) and Tillington (Herefordshire). We will shortly be announcing details of the project publically.


The Co-operative is working in partnership with Denrosa Honey to introduce 600 hives to its farms in Gloucestershire and Herefordshire.


The bees are being sourced by Murray McGregor (MD of Denrosa), one of the UK’s largest, and most experienced bee keepers. Due to the lack of availability of native British black bees, the queens, of north European origin, are being imported from New Zealand.*

All the equipment for the new hives is being sourced as new and the highest standards of biosecurity will be practiced. The bees will be rigorously inspected at source and a stringent licensing and export certification scheme in place. The bees are then inspected again on installation. A full sampling and analysis will be done on all the imported units at the appropriate UK lab. We have invited the local bee inspectorate to work with us from day one, and are working with a former bee inspector throughout the set-up process.*

We are actively supporting the increase in numbers of native British black bees through our work with the Bee Improvement and Bee Breeders Association (BIBBA) to map locations of the native British bee (apis mellifera mellifera) and breed from confirmed native colonies. Initial results of this project are expected later in the year. In addition, we are supporting pollinators through the giveaway of wildflower seeds and undertaking trials on our farms to grow wildflowers in field margins.

*

The Co-operative is proud to support British bees, and bee keepers, and will be inviting local associations and school children on to the farm to visit the hives and learn more about them. We already have visits organised with local bee keepers associations in Herefordshire, as well as bee farmers and other interested members of the community.

*

Kind regards


Naomi

 

[Somerford]

My response, this afternoon


Dear Naomi

I thank you for your response. I am afraid though that I do not buy the presumption that the UK can't supply enough colonies for your proposed enterprise. While I appreciate you intend to make certain the colonies are free from disease (commendable if all 600 are checked by a BDI) it flies in the face of the attempts by BIBBA and other local beekeepers like myself who do their best to keep local, naturalised bees and not rely on imported genes.

What is particularly perturbing is that the Co-Op seem naïve to the impact 300 colonies in each location will have on the local bee populations through the mating of drones with local queens. It is a well known and often reported fact that 1st and 2nd generation crosses are a nightmare to handle, vicious and of bad temperament, and not exactly a pleasure for any beekeeper to handle (and indeed a danger to livestock and the pubic).

I would also challenge the supposition on your part that the locations have enough forage for 300 additional colonies. I beg to differ. I understand from the previous beefarmer to operate at Down Ampney that the site could barely support 100 and honey only came from OSR in the spring, with little or no surplus later in the year - so hardly a commercial decision on the part of the Co-Op !

I would welcome notice when you intend to 'go public' with this.

Yours sincerely

 

[DanBee]

Well done and many thanks to ITLD for adding some facts into this muddle. I'd heard about this on the grapevine - the hoops that were gone through to ensure it was all transparent, inspected, and legal - and was confident when I knew Murray was involved.

I don't think it'll matter to those who have already made their minds up and just want to rant...

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

Somerford - playing Devils advocate, and with no real opinion on this matter, but are these local, naturalised breeds Italians, Carnolians, Danish Buckfast and others? And as far as the cross mating is concerned, is this not the case in nearly all naturally occuring mating in the UK already?