Honey vs syrup & over wintering

[Speybee]

Hello
Can anyone share any scientific papers or research studies, which prove / disprove the benefits or otherwise, of bees feeding on their own honey over winter vs being fed syrup?
I know some beekeepers feel strongly one way or the other and intuitively it feels honey is best. I’m really keen to understand the facts though as a result of scientific studies, if they exist!?
Elaine

I’ve found this reference to feeding bees sugar syrup, now looking for a reference to feeding bees honey.

The effect of feeding sugar syrup to honey-bee colonies

• J. B. Free (a1) and Yvette Spencer-Booth (a1)
  
  
• • DOI: The effect of feeding sugar syrup to honey-bee colonies | The Journal of Agricultural Science | Cambridge Core
  • Published online by Cambridge University Press: 27 March 2009

Extract
1. Honey-bee colonies were fed either concentrated or dilute sugar syrup, or remained unfed, in spring, summer, and autumn of 1958 and 1959.
2. More concentrated than dilute syrup was accepted in every experiment, but the proportion of concentrated to dilute syrup accepted decreased during the course of both years.
3. The concentration of syrup fed made no apparent difference to the gain in weight relative to the sugar taken, probably because the greater efficiency in storing concentrated syrup was offset by the diminution in foraging produced.
4. Feeding dilute or concentrated syrup increased brood rearing during and after feeding in one year (bad weather) but had no effect on brood rearing in the other year (good weather).
5. While being fed colonies usually collected more pollen than they otherwise would.
6. Feeding either concentration of syrup probably decreased nectar gathering when foraging conditions were good, and concentrated syrup may have decreased it more than dilute syrup.

 

[Speybee]

Hello
Can anyone share any scientific papers or research studies, which prove / disprove the benefits or otherwise, of bees feeding on their own honey over winter vs being fed syrup?
I know some beekeepers feel strongly one way or the other and intuitively it feels honey is best. I’m really keen to understand the facts though as a result of scientific studies, if they exist!?
Elaine

I found this paper in reference to bees being fed honey.
I only posted the extract of the first couple of paragraphs and I previously posted extract of another paper in reference to feeding bees sugar, for you to contrast /compare findings.

FEEDING HONEYBEES HONEY MAY INCREASE MORTALITY
JUNE 27, 2014 BY DON STUDINSKI
Bottom Line at the Top
After reviewing the details of the BIP survey results for two years where feeding honeybees carbohydrates is concerned, some very surprising suggestions come to light. These results are statistically significant and come from sample sizes including thousands of beekeepers from all over the USA and tens of thousands of colonies. First, it doesn’t matter what carbohydrates you choose to feed your honeybees, you are either not improving their chances of survival or you are damaging their chances of survival. Those who do not feed are achieving as good or better survival rates.
There is one important exception. In every case, feeding honeybees frames of honey increases their chance of death. Talk about the unexpected! Let me repeat: if you feed your honeybees that which they would feed themselves, frames of honey, then you are increasing their chance of death. We don’t know the cause. But we have strong survey data speaking and we should listen.
Feeding Honeybees Honey May Increase Mortality

 

[Swarm]

"Those who do not feed are achieving as good or better survival rates.
There is one important exception. In every case, feeding honeybees frames of honey increases their chance of death."

A little bit at odds? If the beekeeper doesn't feed, what does he think the bees are feeding on if not the honey in their hive?

 

[elainemary]

I attended a lecture by Prof David Evans recently and he said that his research has shown no advantage to giving honey over fondant for overwintering. He also has a website where I am sure he covers it somewhere: Welcome - The Apiarist .

There is a little in the blog : Blog - The Apiarist

Thanks, my question was stimulated by a comment on the Apiarist Blog last week. Got the impression it’s something he plans to cover in the future.

 

[elainemary]

David Evans definitely likes sugar; but is he a bee scientist?

Most academic research papers are unfortunately not free to view.

Honey is widely considered to be a wonder product. I'm sure that bees will be healthier if they're raised solely on the food they make from nectar.

He’s Professor of Virology at St Andrews University and had a major contribution to the recent research with Prpf Giles Budge at Newcastle uni on recent research in Chronic bee paralysis virus so definitely a credible scientist.

 

[elainemary]

Beekeeping Basic is that bees gather honey for winter Food. Then a beekeeper changed the expencive honey to low price sugar. In Finland the price of winter Food is about 12 € /hive.

Our hives need 9 months sugar to survive , to next summer. No one need scientific evidence. You have hives. Then you feed them with sugar and hives are alive next Spring. That is the evidence. I have fed my hives with sugar 58 years. If you do believe it, it is not my problem.

If you cannot believe your eyes, science cannot help your.

Completely understand & no decent beekeeper would allow their bees to starve. One of the key reasons for regular inspections and winter hefting / fondant for insurance. I am interested in the science though, hence the reason for my question.

 

[elainemary]

Dear all,
Thankyou for your replies to my question & for the various references which I’ll follow up. I’m really interested in the science, hence my original question about any evidence on the benefits or otherwise of leaving honey and feeding sugar and whether this impacts on winter survival rates. When I asked the original question, I also wrote to a NDB beekeeper I met on a course as I thought he might know about any research. Here’s an extract from his reply which i hope you’ll find interesting, especially his tip about vitamin C
Elaine

“There doesn't seem to be a lot of research on comparison of overwintering with sugar syrup or honey. As you say, overwintering with honey will be best. However, 97-99% of the dry matter in honey is sugars. So feeding bees sugar syrup may not be ideal, but it is 97-99% close to honey and perfectly good alternative. If I had to make a choice between feeding colony sugar syrup or letting it starve, I would definitely feed it syrup.
The most significant vitamin found in honey is vitamin C. There is research that suggests that feeding bees sugar syrup with added vitamin C reduces winter losses, compared to feeding just sugar syrup. So if you want to make your sugar syrup even closer to honey, the only other thing you need to add to it is vitamin C (ascorbic acid) at the rate of 1.8mg/l syrup.
You are right that this is a subject of lots of debate and emotions. One of those beekeeping debates that will probably never go away. I think people need to take reasonable and practical approach, and certainly not do anything that may jeopertise the survival of a colony”

 

[Erichalfbee]

He’s Professor of Virology at St Andrews University and had a major contribution to the recent research with Prpf Giles Budge at Newcastle uni on recent research in Chronic bee paralysis virus so definitely a credible scientist.

Fatshark on the forum

 

[Frizzaldo]

we've had a lecturer say cross contamination is a reason you should not give honey back. If you are extracting from multiple hives or apiaries and mixing it all together in the extractor or settling tanks there is a risk (possibly small) that spores from one hive could be fed back to the others in the honey

 

[Speybee]

Completely understand & no decent beekeeper would allow their bees to starve. One of the key reasons for regular inspections and winter hefting / fondant for insurance. I am interested in the science though, hence the reason for my question.

What has been useful for me, (after getting a tip from an older beekeeper) is to roll the 2.5kg bag of fondant, over the entire surface area of the top of the brood nest, below the crown board.

That year I was the only beekeeper who did not have isolation starvation, as everyone else either stuck a slab of fondant in a marg tub or cut a cross in the polythene in the foundation slab placed over the hole in the crown board.

This year I am trying an idea put forward by a forumite to put baking parchment on top of the rolled out fondant, then a clear polycarbonate crown board on top, then the EKE, then roof.

All you do then with minimal disturbance, have a peek at how the fondant is reducing.

 

[Speybee]

we've had a lecturer say cross contamination is a reason you should not give honey back. If you are extracting from multiple hives or apiaries and mixing it all together in the extractor or settling tanks there is a risk (possibly small) that spores from one hive could be fed back to the others in the honey

Cross contamination may be of more importance than most of us realise.
I know from the food industry cross contamination with E. coli particularly in the poultry industry is a continuing challenge.

 

[fiat500bee]

The honey I would expect to feed my bees would be that which was made in their own hive. At a pinch I would share between my own hives if any had a shortage
As far as I know, the claimed 1 to 3% difference between honey and sugar will not simply be vitamin C but a variety of compounds in tiny quantities. Bees obviously thrive on sugar and survive many other interventions. I don't think any of these can be considered out of context with the others.

 

[ericbeaumont]

The bees produce bees all winter (with a break or two)

Often, sometimes or not at all, depending on variables, but protein demand is likely to be less in winter and catered for in part by the storage proteins vitellogenin and arylphorin in the bodies of winter bees. Here is Randy Oliver on the significance of fat bees and vitellogenin.

A colony is unlikely to overwinter on only honey or syrup but a combination of both, and sufficient protein (in combs and in bees) is likely to be available to get the job done. Or, as Finman said: I have fed my hives with sugar 58 years. If you do believe it, it is not my problem (though he probably meant to say do not believe it).

I believe him.

 

[North End Bees]

we've had a lecturer say cross contamination is a reason you should not give honey back. If you are extracting from multiple hives or apiaries and mixing it all together in the extractor or settling tanks there is a risk (possibly small) that spores from one hive could be fed back to the others in the honey

That is very true, but the OP specifically asked "the benefits or otherwise of bees feeding on their own honey over winter vs being fed syrup." (i.e the honey that the bees collected is left in the hive.)

 

[gmonag]

Thank goodness we came along just in time to save the bees, by feeding them refined sugar syrup to get through winter. It is a miracle that they managed to survive the last 40 million years without us!

 

[bobthecob]

Thank goodness we came along just in time to save the bees, by feeding them refined sugar syrup to get through winter. It is a miracle that they managed to survive the last 40 million years without us!

2 obvious points

1. Many beekeepers take honey off a hive (you could see it as a quid-pro-quo for providing a hive etc), so giving syrup back can be necessary.
2. Even where no honey is taken, the natural survival rate for colonies in their first winter (e.g. swarms) is very low, or so I have always understood, and beekeepers would prefer that 25-50% of their collected swarms or split colonies don't die of starvation over winter.

 

[Antipodes]

It depends too on how much the honey is worth. Didn't one of the New Zealand forum members say he couldn't get $2 a kilo for his honey recently? That's about 1 pound sterling for 2.2 pounds of honey. I don't know what sugar syrup costs there.
I know an old beekeeper here... was a very successful commercial beekeeper and still going, and in 75 years of his beekeeping he told me he only had to feed his bees once, and that was the shocking drought the year before last.

 

[masterBK]

In my limited experience of 60+ yrs of beekeeping I have found bees winter best when they have been able to get loads of pollen into the hive during late august and september. Pollen contains protein, lipids, mineral and vitamins and is their main source of these nutrients. Pollen also contains carbohydrates but this forms only a small source compared to honey or sugar syrup. Apart from sugars and water ,honey contains only small amounts of minerals and other nutrients. so why not sell the honey to people who appreciate the taste of honey and give the bees enough sugar syrup to get them through the winter months til April (and sugar only costs 45p per Kg (Farmfoods with vouchers). Have fed 4 gallons of syrup to each of 25 double brood colonies in the last three weeks and a few may need a little more to get them through (5 other colonies didn't need any feeding at all). My bees have always wintered well on syrup and those left with their own honey have not fared any better as far as I can see.

 

[fiat500bee]

Fatshark on the forum

Thank you for that. My question wasn't rhetorical, it was an actual question, It's great that he's a scientist as well as a beekeeper and certainly adds weight to his opinions and advice....much more valid than my own.

 

[Frizzaldo]

That is very true, but the OP specifically asked "the benefits or otherwise of bees feeding on their own honey over winter vs being fed syrup." (i.e the honey that the bees collected is left in the hive.)

yes, thanks for that but you may have noticed there have been several other posts on the topic since the first post. Conversations evolve. Also the OP has more than one hive and didn't specify if they were leaving it on or extracting and feeding it back so my point it applicable