Hive Density - When are there too many?

[BigAshW]

Have just discovered that the young lad near us who started beekeeping last year intends to expand to twenty hives this year.

I did say to him last year when he called me a few times to ask for advice on the issues he was having that there is only so much forage in and given area and that eventually you just keep more bees for less honey.

However given that beebase informs me that there are 186 apiaries registered within 10k of my home apiary I guess twenty more colonies won't make a huge difference in the end.

It did start me thinking though about the UK and the restrictions a small heavily populated island will always have.

When you see the US guys on you tube with large apiaries on double brood langstroths etc I wonder if the fact that they have so much more space per person, ( quick Google shows the population density for the UK is 8x higher than the us), therefore more forage available per beekeeper.

I guess my analogy would be a comparison between the FA and the NFL.

The NFL keeps its franchises to a limited number of teams per city so that they don't Rob each others market. While in the UK cities can host dozens of clubs resulting in some having small crowds compared to others.

,Given that UK beekeepers and their colonies are packed in so much tighter with less available forage it would be logical to suggest that our yields will always be lower than the us and other Less densely populated countries.

None of this rambling thought is backed by any data or anything it's merely the musings of a dad who's kids have got him up at the crack of dawn and is watching the same episode of Tom and Jerry for the 6000th time...

 

[Amari]

Have just discovered that the young lad near us who started beekeeping last year intends to expand to twenty hives this year.

I did say to him last year when he called me a few times to ask for advice on the issues he was having that there is only so much forage in and given area and that eventually you just keep more bees for less honey.

However given that beebase informs me that there are 186 apiaries registered within 10k of my home apiary I guess twenty more colonies won't make a huge difference in the end.

It did start me thinking though about the UK and the restrictions a small heavily populated island will always have.

When you see the US guys on you tube with large apiaries on double brood langstroths etc I wonder if the fact that they have so much more space per person, ( quick Google shows the population density for the UK is 8x higher than the us), therefore more forage available per beekeeper.

I guess my analogy would be a comparison between the FA and the NFL.

The NFL keeps its franchises to a limited number of teams per city so that they don't Rob each others market. While in the UK cities can host dozens of clubs resulting in some having small crowds compared to others.

,Given that UK beekeepers and their colonies are packed in so much tighter with less available forage it would be logical to suggest that our yields will always be lower than the us and other Less densely populated countries.

None of this rambling thought is backed by any data or anything it's merely the musings of a dad who's kids have got him up at the crack of dawn and is watching the same episode of Tom and Jerry for the 6000th time...

Have just discovered that the young lad near us who started beekeeping last year intends to expand to twenty hives this year.

Have just discovered that the young lad near us who started beekeeping last year intends to expand to twenty hives this year.

I did say to him last year when he called me a few times to ask for advice on the issues he was having that there is only so much forage in and given area and that eventually you just keep more bees for less honey.

However given that beebase informs me that there are 186 apiaries registered within 10k of my home apiary I guess twenty more colonies won't make a huge difference in the end.

It did start me thinking though about the UK and the restrictions a small heavily populated island will always have.

When you see the US guys on you tube with large apiaries on double brood langstroths etc I wonder if the fact that they have so much more space per person, ( quick Google shows the population density for the UK is 8x higher than the us), therefore more forage available per beekeeper.

I guess my analogy would be a comparison between the FA and the NFL.

The NFL keeps its franchises to a limited number of teams per city so that they don't Rob each others market. While in the UK cities can host dozens of clubs resulting in some having small crowds compared to others.

,Given that UK beekeepers and their colonies are packed in so much tighter with less available forage it would be logical to suggest that our yields will always be lower than the us and other Less densely populated countries.

None of this rambling thought is backed by any data or anything it's merely the musings of a dad who's kids have got him up at the crack of dawn and is watching the same episode of Tom and Jerry for the 6000th time...

 

[Amari]

Oops, something went wrong with my reply.
It's not only reduced honey yields due to overcrowding. There have been several reports of too many beehives = detriment to wild pollinators
https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/news/2020/september/beekeeping-in-cities-harming-other-wildlife.htmlhttps://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0222316https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-27591-yhttps://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-41271-5

 

[deemann1]

None of my apiarys would have enough forage for twenty hives .. 6 is the limit un my part of the country

 

[BigAshW]

None of my apiarys would have enough forage for twenty hives .. 6 is the limit un my part of the country

I have five colonies on this apiary although I planned this year to re build it and would have space for a few nucs as well.

It's never been particularly productive so I'm not expecting much.

May in the end use it as a mating apiary although the drones I get will be pot luck.

 

[CaptainCymru]

None of my apiarys would have enough forage for twenty hives .. 6 is the limit un my part of the country

When you say 6 is the limit , how many supers would you say is average per hive ?

 

[jeff33]

However given that beebase informs me that there are 186 apiaries registered within 10k of my home apiary I guess twenty more colonies won't make a huge difference in the end.

Where do you find this info on the website, can't seem to find it. Thanks

 

[BigAshW]

Where do you find this info on the website, can't seem to find it. Thanks

Hi there
It just comes up under the tab for my apiary when I click on the individual apiary tab.

 

[jeff33]

Hi there
It just comes up under the tab for my apiary when I click on the individual apiary tab.View attachment 24366View attachment 24366

It have 80 near 1 of my apiaries and 150 near the other 2. To take with a pinch of salt as some may not be used anymore while others may only have 1 or 2 apiaries.... Plus those that don't register them.

 

[BigAshW]

It have 80 near 1 of my apiaries and 150 near the other 2. To take with a pinch of salt as some may not be used anymore while others may only have 1 or 2 apiaries.... Plus those that don't register them.

Yeah I would never believe that's an accurate number as you say. I'm sure plenty don't register or update their page. Tbh I don't do anything with it other than update the locations of my apiaries, I keep my own records etc and the number of colonies goes up and down any way.

 

[Swarm]

To add to what Jeff has said, I had two apiaries that were fairly close yet the difference per 10km radius between the two (over 50 more apiaries!!??) was enough to make me doubt accuracy.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The thing is, anyone can register a new apiary, but you cannot delete them and anyone giving up beekeeping - which often happens with the bees instead of a dog for Christmas brigade probably couldn't even be bothered to delete them even if they could.
Also, if more than one person has registered the same site then that further skews the figures

 

[Swarm]

Not to mention topography, which is equally important.

 

[user 6228]

Some one within a kilometre decided to take up queen breeding so now they have 200 colonies and at least 40 in this site close to me... you can see them from the road...

 

[steve1958]

Been there, done it, learned.
I once had 24 hives. Realised it was less enjoyable than caring for just 4 or 5
I also realised that having 5 times as many hives did not necessarily mean 5 times the amount of honey.
What it did mean though was 5 times the financial outlay.

 

[Hachi]

This is an interesting Q with many variables is there any science behind site numbers or just personal experience or thoughts?

 

[Ian123]

This is an interesting Q with many variables is there any science behind site numbers or just personal experience or thoughts?

There’s some books that quote numbers of hives per acre for crops like Rape, other than that no areas are exactly the same so any research would be area specific and no good for any in the next county. There’s areas sites near me that can take 50 hives on a site during the main flow and show little or no signs of diminishing returns.

 

[jeff33]

Been there, done it, learned.
I once had 24 hives. Realised it was less enjoyable than caring for just 4 or 5
I also realised that having 5 times as many hives did not necessarily mean 5 times the amount of honey.
What it did mean though was 5 times the financial outlay.

I am having this debate at the moment going into the spring with 20 hives. Since last March I have been working from home so bee time has been during the week in between work still allowing me for plenty of spare time. If I need to get back to some normality, I'll certainly review how many hives I keep as I don't plan to make a living out of it. For the moment it is still costing me money as I need to up size everything.

 

[drex]

I am having this debate at the moment going into the spring with 20 hives. Since last March I have been working from home so bee time has been during the week in between work still allowing me for plenty of spare time. If I need to get back to some normality, I'll certainly review how many hives I keep as I don't plan to make a living out of it. For the moment it is still costing me money as I need to up size everything.

I think it is Manley in "honey farming" who says the only way to tell is to keep adding hives and when returns go down, you have reached the limit. However in my limited to xperience it can vary so much from month to month and year to year anyway.

 

[GuyNir]

For me, when you start say to yourself (again and again) ‘I wish I had time to do x’ or ‘I would do x if I had the time’, you‘re too stretched and should be thinking of reducing the no. of colonies. That’s the way I see it.