Hive Density - When are there too many?

[jeff33]

For me, when you start say to yourself (again and again) ‘I wish I had time to do x’ or ‘I would do x if I had the time’, you‘re too stretched and should be thinking of reducing the no. of colonies. That’s the way I see it.

I usually argue that its the fault of work, not the number of colonies

 

[GuyNir]

I usually argue that its the fault of work, not the number of colonies

Agree, could well be. So, either one change the way they do things and be more efficient, or reduce the no. of colonies.

 

[user 20297]

Yeasteday I watched a Zoom talk, generously arranged with free access, by Somerset BKA and given by Tom Seeley. He says the obvious....better not to have hives too close together. When asked what the specific spacing should be, clearly, this was a "how long's a piece of string?" question. But pushed, he suggested that in an ideal world, ie. natural circumstances, that would be around 1km apart.

 

[The Poot]

Yeasteday I watched a Zoom talk, generously arranged with free access, by Somerset BKA and given by Tom Seeley. He says the obvious....better not to have hives too close together. When asked what the specific spacing should be, clearly, this was a "how long's a piece of string?" question. But pushed, he suggested that in an ideal world, ie. natural circumstances, that would be around 1km apart.

We’ll all need fairly large gardens then?

 

[North End Bees]

Yeasteday I watched a Zoom talk, generously arranged with free access, by Somerset BKA and given by Tom Seeley. He says the obvious....better not to have hives too close together. When asked what the specific spacing should be, clearly, this was a "how long's a piece of string?" question. But pushed, he suggested that in an ideal world, ie. natural circumstances, that would be around 1km apart.

Tom Seeley says that 1km apart is what the bees would naturally choose. (Reduces risks of drifting, robbing, forage competition.)

But beekeepers don't keep bees according to what bees would actually choose. If they did, they'd have to change a whole lot of other beekeeping practices other than the 1km siting.

 

[Ian123]

Tom Seeley says that 1km apart is what the bees would naturally choose. (Reduces risks of drifting, robbing, forage competition.)

But beekeepers don't keep bees according to what bees would actually choose. If they did, they'd have to change a whole lot of other beekeeping practices other than the 1km siting.

Yes in many cases what a beekeeper does is a vast improvement and indeed benefit to bees themselves.Never minding the fact there are literally millions more colonies in the world Thks to beekeepers.

 

[North End Bees]

Yes in many cases what a beekeeper does is a vast improvement and indeed benefit to bees themselves.Never minding the fact there are literally millions more colonies in the world Thks to beekeepers.

My point was that we don't keep bees according to how they live in nature so the single hive per 1km apiary rule wouldn't really apply.

 

[Ian123]

Oops

 

[Ian123]

My point was that we don't keep bees according to how they live in nature so the single hive per 1km apiary rule wouldn't really apply.

I don’t think that’s what he said even if it’s what he meant, I would also suggest it’s not true. Many here can cite instances of multiple colonies in a single building or indeed an immediate area. Particularly those that had bees pre varroa. I think the natural bit was inserted by the OP who quoted him.

 

[user 20297]

We’ll all need fairly large gardens then?

....yes, but we're talking about this "ideal world".

 

[gmonag]

800m is the average distance Seeley found between feral colonies when surveying the Arnott forest.
He once perfomed an experiment where he spaced colonies 30m+ apart. The instance of disease/mites was much lower than in those placed close together, as most of us do with our bees.

 

[user 20297]

Tom Seeley says that 1km apart is what the bees would naturally choose. (Reduces risks of drifting, robbing, forage competition.)

But beekeepers don't keep bees according to what bees would actually choose. If they did, they'd have to change a whole lot of other beekeeping practices other than the 1km siting.

Neither Tom Seeley (nor me) are prescribing how bees should be kept. But I think that the sort of practical experimentation that Dr. Seeley and others carry out, is useful in giving us reference points which may inform the inquisitive amongst us of small changes we can make in our own circumstances which might improve the wellbeing of our bees.

 

[North End Bees]

I don’t think that’s what he said even if it’s what he meant, I would also suggest it’s not true. Many here can cite instances of multiple colonies in a single building or indeed an immediate area. Particularly those that had bees pre varroa. I think the natural bit was inserted by the OP who quoted him.

Nope, he did actually say that in the presentation. (Also his 50 years of tracking unmanaged colonies is well documented in his The Lives of Bees.)

 

[Firefly]

Dale Gibson, of Bermondsey Street Bees (near the Shard) gave a talk to Warks BKA last week. He is moving bees out of his part of London to more rural locations at the end of the tube/DLR etc, because he is convinced that the density of hobby hives is such that it is now leading to falling yields and build-up of AFB and EFB. Incidentally, he also said that he sells out of honey at £15 per 12oz jar; Singapore-on-Thames indeed

 

[user 20297]

I think the natural bit was inserted by the OP who quoted him.

I wasn't quoting Dr. Seeley; the "natural" circumstances he was drawing his conclusions from were in his famous Arnott Forest, where he suggested that colonies were, on average, around 1000 metres apart. As later updated more accurately by @gmonag to 800 meters; I haven't read the book

 

[North End Bees]

Dale Gibson, of Bermondsey Street Bees (near the Shard) gave a talk to Warks BKA last week. He is moving bees out of his part of London to more rural locations at the end of the tube/DLR etc, because he is convinced that the density of hobby hives is such that it is now leading to falling yields and build-up of AFB and EFB. Incidentally, he also said that he sells out of honey at £15 per 12oz jar; Singapore-on-Thames indeed

At £15 a jar, that's marketing for you. He knows how to do his job.

Incidentally he also sells honey from hives around Essex where I live and has done for quite some time. Long before the decision to move out of London (but keep the successful name on the jars).

 

[Ian123]

The Arnot forest is a very specific area and the assumption was made that bees choose! to be 1km apart. You could more likely argue that natural barriers and availability of forage govern what population density is not the bees choice. We are aware that swarms may put some distance between themselves and the original colony but what happens when the swarm already down the road wants to move in? As said previously I and others can quote multiple instances of colonies on top of each other.

 

[North End Bees]

We are aware that swarms may put some distance between themselves and the original colony but what happens when the swarm already down the road wants to move in? As said previously I and others can quote multiple instances of colonies on top of each other.

Yes but that's bees adapting as best they can to a man-made environment. (Towns didn't appear naturally!)
If they've swarmed from a colony in town, the bees can't really decide to relocate to some nice forest area miles away. And multiple swarms will compete for limited sites. Unfortunately increasing the risks of disease transmission between colonies.

 

[Ian123]

Yes but that's bees adapting as best they can to a man-made environment. (Towns didn't appear naturally!)
If they've swarmed from a colony in town, the bees can't really decide to relocate to some nice forest area miles away. And multiple swarms will compete for limited sites. Unfortunately increasing the risks of disease transmission between colonies.

No not true 1 instance I can think of was a coral cliff face in the middle no where that had many different colonies. As for limited sites in a man made environment, rubbish man made structures provide a multitude of voids/cavities. Bees have developed to take at vantage of cavities, it doesn’t mean they only like trees

 

[Parsonage Bees]

European honey bees are an invasive species in North America. Different forests. Does the same density apply here? Will have to read the book again, he may have referenced similar studies in The Old World idk. ?

Edit: "he" = Dr Seeley in "The Lives of Bees"