Hive Density - When are there too many?

[Ian123]

So at the end of the day it all comes down to what we already knew anyway.

Given the choice bees will choose nest sites away from other bees.

Despite people giving you examples to the contrary! Boston you are about to have a very circular experience

 

[North End Bees]

Despite people giving you examples to the contrary! Boston you are about to have a very circular experience

Yes, examples of what bees do. The original question was about what bees choose to do, given natural conditions.

People all over the world live in substandard housing, refugee camps, high rise concrete blocks, makeshift shelters. High disease transmission, aggravated by close proximity. Nobody would say these people wouldn't live healthier, happier lives if they could relocate somewhere better. But they bring up the next generation in the same circumstances because that's where they are.

You start off with one family living in the corner of a barn, within a couple of generations there are 10 families living in every corner of the barn.

 

[Ian123]

Yes, examples of what bees do. The original question was about what bees choose to do, given natural conditions.

People all over the world live in substandard housing, refugee camps, high rise concrete blocks, makeshift shelters. High disease transmission, aggravated by close proximity. Nobody would say these people wouldn't live healthier, happier lives if they could relocate somewhere better. But they bring up the next generation in the same circumstances because that's where they are.

You start off with one family living in the corner of a barn, within a couple of generations there are 10 families living in every corner of the barn.

Ok so can you define natural conditions and when we last had them?..........And to people and I’m not sure what that has to do with bees and their choice can you tell me a point in history that the human race has lived in better conditions. I’m not in any way suggesting things are ideal, I’m interested to know at what point in history utopia existed.

 

[North End Bees]

Ok so can you define natural conditions and when we last had them?..........And to people and I’m not sure what that has to do with bees and their choice can you tell me a point in history that the human race has lived in better conditions. I’m not in any way suggesting things are ideal, I’m interested to know at what point in history utopia existed.

A point in history? It's not history, it's geography. We don't need to take bees (or people) back in time. We need to improve the geographical surroundings.

People, in the past and now, live in widely varying situations. Some with positive impacts for health, some with negative. Wouldn't you wish for everyone to live in a positive environment which doesn't shorten their life or make it less healthy? Same for bees.

We'd probably all wish for every family in the world to have a little bit of land where they can cultivate their own garden. And for bees to live in the surroundings they would choose. But unfortunately the populations outweigh the land available.

 

[Ian123]

Ok so can you define natural conditions and when we last had them?..........And to people and I’m not sure what that has to do with bees and their choice can you tell me a point in history that the human race has lived in better conditions. I’m not in any way suggesting things are ideal, I’m interested to know at what point in history utopia existed.

...........I’ll repeat

 

[North End Bees]

...........I’ll repeat

And so will I...

You're asking about history. It's not about history. It's about the natural environment.
So what's natural? You know, the place where everything lives in the place it evolved to be until humans came along and built over it.

The original argument was that bees live better, and healthier, in low density areas. That's the environment they evolved over millennia to live in. They can, and do, live in poorer conditions, as can everyone. But that doesn't take away from the fact that they would live better in the many varied environments they lived in before humans came along and manipulated it for their own purposes.

 

[Ian123]

You’ve made statements I’ve asked questions that you simply don’t answer or make another statement with little regard to the question
If you want things to stay in the natural areas they evolved! bees or people come to that would be restricted to very small parts of the world. I’ll leave it at that as I said earlier it’s all very circular. Ian

 

[Gilberdyke John]

And so will I...

You're asking about history. It's not about history. It's about the natural environment.
So what's natural? You know, the place where everything lives in the place it evolved to be until humans came along and built over it.

The original argument was that bees live better, and healthier, in low density areas. That's the environment they evolved over millennia to live in. They can, and do, live in poorer conditions, as can everyone. But that doesn't take away from the fact that they would live better in the many varied environments they lived in before humans came along and manipulated it for their own purposes.

I'm dreading what would happen to humans if you were supreme leader of the world given the inferences in your postings

 

[benjamind]

The Arnot forest is a very specific area and the assumption was made that bees choose! to be 1km apart.

Isn't Arnot Forest in the US? Where honeybees are not indigenous and were introduced by European travellers in the 17th century? I'd take it with a pinch of salt before applying to UK/Europe.

 

[North End Bees]

You’ve made statements I’ve asked questions that you simply don’t answer or make another statement with little regard to the question
If you want things to stay in the natural areas they evolved! bees or people come to that would be restricted to very small parts of the world. I’ll leave it at that as I said earlier it’s all very circular. Ian

And you've asked questions which imply I've said something different in the previous answer. And you complain about circular...

 

[North End Bees]

I'm dreading what would happen to humans if you were supreme leader of the world given the inferences in your postings

What inferences?

 

[North End Bees]

Isn't Arnot Forest in the US? Where honeybees are not indigenous and were introduced by European travellers in the 17th century? I'd take it with a pinch of salt before applying to UK/Europe.

Go tell that to Tom Seeley. Perhaps we shouldn't be listening to his irrelevant research?

 

[Antipodes]

Apiary sites 3 ks apart here is the general rule in the public forests....with exceptions.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I'd be more concerned as to the density of the average bee dabbler........................

 

[Gilberdyke John]

What inferences?

So what's natural? You know, the place where everything lives in the place it evolved to be until humans came along and built over it

 

[Finman]

Every beekeepets must reviele to themselves, what is good amount of hives on each pastures. And how big hives.

If you ha two sites, you can compare yields between sites. Difference is easily 2-3 fold, even 5.

In my home yard I get 30 kg/hive and in good outer places 150 kg.

Size of the hive is important. If I have 6-8 langstroth boxes per hive, I can compare them. If the hives has 4 boxes, no worth to compare.

If Seeley researches feral colonies, they are so tiny, that no need to calculate anything from them.

 

[masterBK]

Often see large groups of hives on the Heather at Yorkshire moors

 

[North End Bees]

I'm dreading what would happen to humans if you were supreme leader of the world given the inferences in your postings

I have no wish to be supreme leader of the world. What goes around, comes around and it'll end one way or another.
Let's hope mankind doesn't succeed in colonising other planets before that time.

 

[seanconnery]

A point in history? It's not history, it's geography. We don't need to take bees (or people) back in time. We need to improve the geographical surroundings.

People, in the past and now, live in widely varying situations. Some with positive impacts for health, some with negative. Wouldn't you wish for everyone to live in a positive environment which doesn't shorten their life or make it less healthy? Same for bees.

We'd probably all wish for every family in the world to have a little bit of land where they can cultivate their own garden. And for bees to live in the surroundings they would choose. But unfortunately the populations outweigh the land available.

...not in Canada.

 

[North End Bees]

...not in Canada.

True, shall we all come to Canada??