Giving a talk on Poly Hives - Need evidence

[For want of a better word]

Those hats resemble me about

Crikey the BBKA top table !​

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[user 6228]

Yes he used a reference for the type of trees and thermal efficiences and cavity size and shape, although I can not remember exact figures, cedar is quite good, and for this reason along with it's lightness and rot resistance is why it's been used for so long.
as for location, size, and age of tree this does not affect the timbers thermal qualities, and I presume that if a cavity is too small the bees will not use it, as with too large (probably the tree will fall down if cavity too big).

I took the sizeand shape information from the 1975 T Seeley paper and used the average thickness he found and a represenative thermal conductance

The nest simulates thicknesses of 92mm of cedar or 225mm of oak or 150mm of something in between

 

[IBeeHere]

From my understanding most people in the Nordic countries use polyhives for amongst other things, their insulation values.
Also from my understanding many of these hives are housed in special bee sheds.
As sheds provide protection from the extremes of the weather, and is not unusual to find that the temperature in a good bee house 10 degrees C higher than the outside temperature.
So I conclude that many people are already insulating their polyhives by keeping them this way.

 

[Poly Hive]

Not in the uK they do not. Poly hives are kept in the open and the Nordic line of shelter is a new one to me.

PH

 

[IBeeHere]

Do you keep yours in any sort of protection during the winter?

 

[oliver90owner]

I think under the snow would be good. Easy to arrange, effective and stable external temperatures. Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) we don't usually get that much snow in the UK.

 

[Finman]

From my understanding most people in the Nordic countries use polyhives for amongst other things, their insulation values.
Also from my understanding many of these hives are housed in special bee sheds.
As sheds provide protection from the extremes of the weather, and is not unusual to find that the temperature in a good bee house 10 degrees C higher than the outside temperature.
So I conclude that many people are already insulating their polyhives by keeping them this way.

Every sentence in that text is wrong.

Polyhive
- insulation, they have used before too because it is must. That is not a factor.
- cost is 1/3 compared to insulated wooden hive
- light = 1000 g

Bee sheds are not needed. They are but not common. Some keeps nucs in cellars or in cattle cheds

- beehause must be under 7C and good ventilation and dark. Bees produce guite much heat all the time.

- no one insulate they polyhives. Many wrap but it is only old habit.
- I use wind protection and it protect from birds too

This is Honey paw company owners -25C out temp during action.
They have over 1000 hives. They are in woods a yeard around.

http://beekeeping.honeypaw.fi/Hive-parts.php


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltFEi07DTqM[/ame]

,

 

[Finman]

.
Honeypaw's warmth bottom.




The Warmth bottom is very much like the traditional wooden bottom, except that is made from the same material as the boxes. The entrance is 30 mm high ensuring good air chance also in winter. The entrance has ready grooves for a mice net and for entrance reducer. The reducer is used to keep the hive warm in spring and fall. It also prevents robbing. The bottom is inclined towards the entrance. The hight is 10 mm at the back and 30 mm in the front. This way all condensated water run away easily. We have wintered 900 hives through hard winter without problems ( 90 day without break in below zero oC, bees inside without flying for 6 months). The warmth bottom is inexpensive choice and gives good wintering and fast spring growth for the hives.

 

[user 6228]

.
Honeypaw's warmth bottom.




The Warmth bottom is very much like the traditional wooden bottom, except that is made from the same material as the boxes. The entrance is 30 mm high ensuring good air chance also in winter. The entrance has ready grooves for a mice net and for entrance reducer. The reducer is used to keep the hive warm in spring and fall. It also prevents robbing. The bottom is inclined towards the entrance. The hight is 10 mm at the back and 30 mm in the front. This way all condensated water run away easily. We have wintered 900 hives through hard winter without problems ( 90 day without break in below zero oC, bees inside without flying for 6 months). The warmth bottom is inexpensive choice and gives good wintering and fast spring growth for the hives.

I am now researching other hive types, manufacturers and features with the intention of publishing a paper that gives a broad ranging quantitive comparison of the thermal performance of hives.

Finman would it be possible to obtain a sample of the warmth bottom to test?


and yes I am testing the matchsticks under the crown board with wooden hives

 

[PBee]

I have mostly Honeypaw equipment now(Paradise boxes though). They have two types of floor and I have both in use. The solid bottom I prefer for simplicity. The open mesh has integral slide in drawer - reversible to create different conditions for winter and summer, but never open completely just different size ventilation channels. If I can work out how to resize photos I might have a go at uploading pictures to-day.

 

[Madge]

Thanks PH
Have not noticed any drifting or other problems ... any suggestions for colour / patterns welcome... just do not want them looking like WW11 battleships!

The new BBKA Guide to Beekeeping (Davis & Cullum-Kenyon) illustrates the use of symbols with a photo of black hives with red symbols (p69) - but I thought bees see red as black - so that was probably a bad choice of colours. Well, at least there's a tiny white line around the red symbols, so the bees will probably see that ...

 

[For want of a better word]

and yes I am testing the matchsticks under the crown board with wooden hives

Thermal conductivity tests can surely only be reductionist in their scientific approach?

The strain of bee and its adaptation to the local environment must be a factor in performance of producing honey.

The Northern tribes built their boats from sealskin and withies, because those were the materials they had available... if they had the technology to build from polystyrene foam backed fibreglass or Kevlar I expect they would have used it.... as the saying goes...

You can't have your kayak and heat it !





















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[Poly Hive]

Just bear in mind a minute sample in an experiment counts less than a large one.

PH

 

[snoop]

yellow , green and blue are the colours the bee sees easiest ( + of course ultraviolet)

 

[simoncav]

Thermal efficiency models

I too went to Derek's presentation at Basingstoke BKA, and it was indeed fascinating, entertaining and thought provoking...

He has clearly put in a lot of effort to ensure his measurements are as accurate as can be and is in the process of preparing and publishing papers on his work. The thermal model of a hollow tree trunk was really eye-opening!

It's highly likely we will be doing a double-act, presenting at the Hampshire BKA convention on the 10th November at Barton-Peverill College in Eastleigh.

"Mike a" has also offered to provide some thermal camera images of different hive designs, so it should be an interesting workshop, even if I have to fit sitting a couple of module exams in on the same day!

Simon

 

[Finman]

.
I do not like polystyrene bottoms. Bottoms are often dirty and molded.
It is very difficult to keep clean that kind of material.
They will be short living.

But a good bottom needs quite much work. A plain box is not enough.

I have done some insulated bottoms, but ants have find them very good to live.

This summer I eliminated Camponotus herculeanus from bottom.

 

[Luminos]

.
I do not like polystyrene bottoms. Bottoms are often dirty and molded.
It is very difficult to keep clean that kind of material.
They will be short living.

But a good bottom needs quite much work. A plain box is not enough.

I have done some insulated bottoms, but ants have find them very good to live.

This summer I eliminated Camponotus herculeanus from bottom.

Sounds like ants in your pants, Finman lol

 

[Finman]

Sounds like ants in your pants, Finman lol

I have not heard anything?

How they say?

 

[Poly Hive]

Must be climatic again.

I have used poly floors for over twenty years and can't say I have had a "dirty" one. Dirty timber floors yes, but never more than some wax on the poly floor and that is easily scraped away.

PH

 

[Finman]

Must be climatic again.

PH

Perhaps. Bees do not clean floors during 6 months and they will be covered with mold.
wooden floors makes the same.