For those interested in AMM

Beekeeping & Apiculture Forum

Help Support Beekeeping & Apiculture Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Jimy Dee

House Bee
Joined
Mar 2, 2014
Messages
270
Reaction score
0
Location
Ireland
Hive Type
Commercial
Number of Hives
6
Folks, I am just cutting and pasting from an article published here in Ireland recently. I hope it is of interest to some folk. Jim

The pure native Irish honeybee is not extinct as previously feared and is living in many parts of the island of Ireland, a post-graduate research student has established using genetic testing.

Irish bee populations have experienced a sustained decline over many decades, which necessitated the importation of bees, often bringing diseases. But news that Apis mellifera mellifera – the pure native Irish honeybee – still exists has brought a fillip to beekeepers.

Jack Hassett, who is pursing his doctorate at Limerick Institute of Technology, used DNA analysis to deduce that millions of the native black Irish honeybees are living in at least 300 hives throughout the country.

“It’s a fantastic result, especially for all the different beekeepers around the country who’ve been trying to preserve the native Irish bee. We sampled 300 hives from 80 sites,” said Mr Hassett, who is from Thurles, Co Tipperary.

Previous methods of testing bees, including measuring wing and body length, were “not as exact as DNA analysis”, he added.

It was commonly presumed the Irish bee died out after a disease outbreak in the 19th century devastated the native English bee, which also falls under the Apis mellifera mellifera categorisation.

Mr Hassett’s work shows that while the black bee should still be considered endangered, there are enough of the pure native honeybees in Ireland to not only ensure its survival but it could help repopulate northern Europe, where the majority of Apis mellifera mellifera has died out or been hybridised.

“We have found that not only are these black bees a pure form of Apis mellifera mellifera, but they also have markers specific only to Ireland. The vast majority of the DNA samples taken showed greater than 95 per cent purity for Apis mellifera mellifera; the native honeybee for northern Europe and Ireland,” he said. “The study exceeded all our expectations, and has excited beekeepers across the continent. It has belied the myth that there is no native Irish honeybee in existence.”

A worldwide decline in honeybees led to concerns about their essential pollinator role and the potentially drastic impact their loss may have on the quality and diversity of foods.

“However, this new study proves Ireland now has potentially the greatest reserve of Apis mellifera mellifera in the world; the honeybee that dominated all northern Europe.

“It is imperative that we act now to protect this unique population that has adapted on this island over thousands of years. The distinctive Irish population has been under threat from the importation of queens and hives, and this practice has to stop if we are to prevent destruction of our unique honeybee through hybridisation and disease,” he added.

Botanist Prof Jane Stout of TCD said it was “a really interesting finding”. The European honeybee, Apis mellifera, is the most common honeybee species worldwide, and there are around a dozen subspecies found across Europe. The subspecies Apis mellifera mellifera used to be widely distributed across northern Europe but it has been lost, interbred and/or replaced with other subspecies across much of its native range.

“It is interesting that the Irish bees tested in this study were shown to be overwhelmingly ‘pure’ Apis mellifera mellifera – either there have been fewer attempts to interbreed with or establish other subspecies here, or it is better adapted to our environmental conditions. Whatever the case, Ireland appears to be one of the few places where this subspecies has persisted,” she added.

The fact that Ireland appears to be a refuge for this subspecies, and our honeybees are genetically distinct, does not automatically mean they can repopulate depleted stocks in other parts of Europe – they may be better suited to our Atlantic conditions, she warns. “It does mean that we should have good biosecurity with regards to honeybee imports – both to protect the genetic integrity of native populations, and to reduce disease spread.”
 
Mr Hassett’s work shows that while the black bee should still be considered endangered, there are enough of the pure native honeybees in Ireland to not only ensure its survival but it could help repopulate northern Europe, where the majority of Apis mellifera mellifera has died out or been hybridised.

Jimy, excellent news for the native irish bee society...although they have taken their time confirming this...but repopulate Europe with them...sorry....I know you are copying and pasting but whoever wrote that article wants hanging.......the Germans virtually eliminated their native Amm's as not really a serious beekeepers bee. Who wants a bee that sits around drinking Guinness all day? To put it politely despite all the enthusiasm for for the "old English/Irish Amm...who wants them? other than the local bring back the Aurochs societies?
240px-Aurochse.jpg
They exist ,Amms' that is (see Colonsay and other local populations)but currently they are not good bees for beekeepers to work with. Despite the extravagant claims of their fans.
 
Last edited:
And who knows what could be on the cards with a focused breeding plan?

That I wouldn't disagree with. They were never subjected to a real breeding program like B= and his Carniolans have been.
 
That I wouldn't disagree with. They were never subjected to a real breeding program like B= and his Carniolans have been.

When Brother Adam developed the Buckfast bee he retained a high percentage of AMM genes and used other mellifera subspecies to incorporate the qualities lacking in AMM. That is probably as close as one will get to a real breeding programme. There are individuals involved in breeding AMM in Southern Ireland for decades without apparently achieving very much except a serious narrowing of the gene pool. It does appear that an outcross to another mellifera sub species is needed to achieve results. Just an opinion and whether there is agreement or not makes no difference to me.
 
When Brother Adam developed the Buckfast bee he retained a high percentage of AMM genes and used other mellifera subspecies to incorporate the qualities lacking in AMM. That is probably as close as one will get to a real breeding programme. There are individuals involved in breeding AMM in Southern Ireland for decades without apparently achieving very much except a serious narrowing of the gene pool. It does appear that an outcross to another mellifera sub species is needed to achieve results. Just an opinion and whether there is agreement or not makes no difference to me.

I often wonder how BA did this as I believe he as with most of the so called modern beekeeping importer brigade that the Amm species was eradicated.. extinct ... is no more!

The Irish ( and the Cornish) studies prove conclusively that Amm has managed to remain in the British Isles and is very much alive

And as with all species of honeybee... even Amm .. selective bee improvement brings about calm and productive bees.

My own "selected and improved" dark bees (Amm) have out performed my Mediterranean imports this year.

Well done Ireland

Do not import bees.

Yeghes da
 
There are individuals involved in breeding AMM in Southern Ireland for decades without apparently achieving very much except a serious narrowing of the gene pool.

Always a risk to bear in mind when trying to interfere with nature, whatever the species. :(
 
There are individuals involved in breeding AMM in Southern Ireland for decades without apparently achieving very much except a serious narrowing of the gene pool.

Always a risk to bear in mind when trying to interfere with nature, whatever the species. :(

The Hybridised bees are designed to have a very narrow gene pool... and seemingly as narrow minded as some of their owners.

I can see this thread going down the same route as others whenever Amm are mentioned!!!

Yeghes da
 
And as with all species of honeybee... even Amm .. selective bee improvement brings about calm and productive bees.

Selective breeding can only isolate and intensify characteristics that are already there. If they aren't there already, you'd be wasting your time. Also, there is a huge amount of work involved in selective breeding. Who's going to do it?
 
Selective breeding can only isolate and intensify characteristics that are already there. If they aren't there already, you'd be wasting your time. Also, there is a huge amount of work involved in selective breeding. Who's going to do it?

Selective breeding can be as simple as choosing a mother, it doesn't have to conform to any dogma. Admittedly progress is more assured controlling both parents.
 
Rather than go over the same blinkered negativity that always appears in Amm threads, let's stop for a moment and realise that we are all supposed to be lovers/ custodians of the honey bee. That one sub species gets so much criticism I simply cannot understand.
A serious breeding program will never be realised when we have beekeepers filling the heads of others and thereby perpetuating the anti Amm mood.

As beekeepers we should all be happy!
 
.
What is the mechanism, why one hive here and another there, stays pure with other bee strains. And they stay Irish!

I would say that story is meant to pure bee lovers.

Every one knows that a bee is not "pure" after first mating in open mongrel environment.

And if it is pure, after 5 years it is badly inbred.

Third point: Two pure hives on Irish backyard decade after decade.
 
Last edited:
Try indigenous.

Yes. We've been through all of this before. Even humans aren't native/indigenous to the UK. It only depends how far back you want to go. So, if an introduced species can become native simply by occupying an area for a period of time, even non-natives can eventually be considered native.
 
Do not import bees.

Yeghes da

I have to laugh, there was a guy on FB who gave me such a hard time for importing bees, he is a black bee fanatic, he writes books, if his videos are to go on well......enough said. He is called Phil Chandler.

His last rant I asked him where he gets his AMM's as he is in Devon, he said they are pure bred in IRELAND!!!!
 
Selective breeding can only isolate and intensify characteristics that are already there. If they aren't there already, you'd be wasting your time. Also, there is a huge amount of work involved in selective breeding. Who's going to do it?

Are any of the desirable traits recessive? So they may be present in the genotype but absent from the phenotype.
 
Back
Top