For those interested in AMM

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Bit like blindly following the mantra of imported 'hygienic bees'.

 

[Uncle Betty]

Difference between opposing imports and the 'choice' of which variety of bee to keep.

 

[Finman]

.
You may use in spring imported Queen and then change it to local Queen during summer.
So do I.

But it is good to try, what are foreign bees. When I weeded out chalk brood from my apiary, an Queen direct from Italy was very good in that duty. Good genes.

That would help to black bee's eternal problem, named EFB.

 

[Beefriendly]

Not sure what you mean by blindly following a mantra. I've read a lot and thought a lot.

I'm not trying to turn the clock back.

You said that you are being told that keeping Amm is different?
Perhaps you need to explain what the differences are.

 

[Uncle Betty]

You said that you are being told that keeping Amm is different?
Perhaps you need to explain what the differences are.

I didn't say 'I'.

I said 'we', in other words anyone reading the forum regularly.

https://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=606765&postcount=194

Why did you get something so simple, so wrong ?

 

[Uncle Betty]

Kudos to the OP, who got out while the going was good.

 

[Beefriendly]

I didn't say 'I'.

I said 'we', in other words anyone reading the forum regularly.

?

I take it you (and or anyone else) is declining to answer why you?we/they etc say that keeping Amm's is different?

 

[For want of a better word]

I think everyone must be bored with this by now. I know I am.

Yes I think the trolls must have dried out by now... lets send them back under the bridge until next time... billy goat gruff & Co comes tip tapping his way to look at the grass on the other side of the stream!!

Yeghes da

 

[Poly Hive]

I have run the following types of bee.

NZ Yellow bees probably Italian but cannot be sure.

Amm. Scottish version from the harder climes of the NE.

Carniolian Alpine strain propagated in NZ and some propogated in Perthshire.

Now it is fair to say the each of these strains has been different from each other and required different management.

If there were to be less bickering and petty nit picking then this thread might actually be informative.

The yellow bees were hopeless as it was obvious they wanted feeding and lived in hope that summer was coming later. Not realising they were in the middle of it. Pure crap for my climes.

The Amm were either very good or very poor. Did not handle stress well, prone to dying mid winter in the midst of good stores either from Nosema or I strongly suspect weakened by it. Just my thoughts there, no real proof though the microscope pointed that way strongly. Also strongly prone to supercedure on the heather which was a good thing to a point.

Carnies = swarming. Almost every colony every year. But... oh what calm quiet productive bees. A joy to own and to teach with.

So yes all very different. But it takes experience to see those differences.


PH

 

[Uncle Betty]

I take it you (and or anyone else) is declining to answer why you?we/they etc say that keeping Amm's is different?

From this thread alone...

My carnica performs better here than any of the local mongrels

Because they know what AMM is. I have almost 30 years experiences about that queen of the myths.
It is good to warn new beekeepers about that trial of domestication.

... tens thousands of stings in nursing Black Devils 1963-1990.

Your average honey yield 10 kg/ hive will be in danger.

Your good self...

Unfortunately my Amm colonies lower my average.

Negative or unfavourable associations and comparisons attached to the keeping of Amm. Regular readers of the forum will recognise.

QED.

 

[B+.]

From this thread alone...

Quote:
My carnica performs better here than any of the local mongrels

If you'd like to dispute that statement, please do so....but, provide the evidence as I have done.

 

[Uncle Betty]

If you'd like to dispute that statement, please do so....but, provide the evidence as I have done.

Would you like to calm down ?

I am disputing neither the accuracy nor honesty of your statement.

I was asked a question by another poster, and I answered it.

 

[B+.]

The Amm were either very good or very poor. Did not handle stress well, prone to dying mid winter in the midst of good stores either from Nosema or I strongly suspect weakened by it. Just my thoughts there, no real proof though the microscope pointed that way strongly. Also strongly prone to supercedure on the heather which was a good thing to a point.

Carnies = swarming. Almost every colony every year. But... oh what calm quiet productive bees. A joy to own and to teach with.

So yes all very different. But it takes experience to see those differences.

I think this illustrates what can be achieved through selective breeding.

I am hard-pressed to make my Carnica swarm. Even when the queen hasn't had a single cell to lay in and the brood chamber has been packed full of honey (don't ask - sometimes other commitments get in the way of proper beekeeping standards), my test queens haven't swarmed.

Now, if those who have been so vocal about Amm would test their stock, we'd have something to compare. So far, I've not seen any test results

 

[Poly Hive]

I shall look forward to seeing that trait for myself and so shall form a queue of one to be at the front... oh I already have...

PH

 

[Show me the honey]

I'm confused (only 2 years in) but dark mongrels don't mean Amm does it? Aren't they just mongrels, a mix of everything around good or bad, Imported/local? Comments like black devils and imports being better than local mongrels aren't about amm? Surely?

Also while I'm here why couldn't amm be bred to be better (not my view)

There are bits of this thread that are interesting! And I bet many have lots of questions as I do But don't think that's a good idea. Just need to cut out the attacks on both sides

 

[madasafish]

I'm confused (only 2 years in) but dark mongrels don't mean Amm does it? Aren't they just mongrels, a mix of everything around good or bad, Imported/local? Comments like black devils and imports being better than local mongrels aren't about amm? Surely?

Also while I'm here why couldn't amm be bred to be better (not my view)

There are bits of this thread that are interesting! And I bet many have lots of questions as I do But don't think that's a good idea. Just need to cut out the attacks on both sides

If you expect reasoned debate when one party has already taken a stand which is inflexibly immoveable - "Ban all imports. End of "- then you should try running the Brexit negotiations

 

[Swarm]

I think everyone must be bored with this by now. I know I am.

Oh I don't know you are still posting. I'll never understand why you feel the need to have a go like this in every Amm thread. It's like you have some agenda.
Accept that some people don't follow your ideals.
Accept that some people WANT to keep Amm and are not interested in keeping Carnica.

 

[B+.]

Oh I don't know you are still posting. I'll never understand why you feel the need to have a go like this in every Amm thread. It's like you have some agenda.
Accept that some people don't follow your ideals.
Accept that some people WANT to keep Amm and are not interested in keeping Carnica.

Quite the opposite swarm. I have some sympathy for Amm. That doesn't mean I want to breed it myself, but, I am interested.
If you turn the antagonism level down a notch or two, you'll see that I am more reasonable than you portray me (as, I'm sure, others will agree).

 

[Swarm]

I'm confused (only 2 years in) but dark mongrels don't mean Amm does it? Aren't they just mongrels, a mix of everything around good or bad, Imported/local? Comments like black devils and imports being better than local mongrels aren't about amm? Surely?

Also while I'm here why couldn't amm be bred to be better (not my view)

There are bits of this thread that are interesting! And I bet many have lots of questions as I do But don't think that's a good idea. Just need to cut out the attacks on both sides

You are correct. Unfortunately people were too quick to dismiss Amm as just local mongrels because of the extinction myth. The OP shows this is not the case, Amm do exist.
Your question is one I have already posed, of course they could. Remember, they have seen none of the extensive work enjoyed by other bees.

I have seen quite a few new beekeepers who are particularly interested in keeping Amm.
(and a fair few seasoned ones as well)

 

[Swarm]

If you'd like to dispute that statement, please do so....but, provide the evidence as I have done.

What's all that about then?
If you have the sympathy you say you do, why do you always bring things back to your Carnica and show me proof that Amm can do this?
I suppose I am being antagonistic, considering the point of the thread has long gone and it happens every time.
We almost had a chance to discuss Amm but there was no chance of that happening was there?