Raked out a few dead bees from the entrance of one hive to find one of them was the queen .This was a late swarm I caught, it had a high varroa count which I treated with maqs when caught and OA dribble early Dec. The queen shows no outward signs of disease but her wings had been nibbled . Through the clear crownboard I can see 3 seams of bees the odd one showing dwv What would you do with them and frames of stores from this hive ? Thanks for any suggestions.
Dead queen in winter
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masterBK
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It might be that the colony went into winter with two queens having superseded in early autumn (the dead one being the older one).
As above cross your fingers there’s another queen, if your seeing bees with dwv through the crown board it would suggest they are in a sorry state. But I wonder what you are seeing as that many younger bees this early? If that is the case then with only 3 seams there’s a good chance they will just dwindle as the older bees die off and deformed younger bees emerge. You could stick an apivar strip in on the next mild day but that’s about all you can do atm.
Thanks Master BK & Ian for replying- am now hoping that they superseded when I wasn't looking. Would you think that a quick inspection ( weather permitting) would be out of order to try and suss out whats going on ?
enrico
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As long as it's warm enough.for goodness sake don't chill them too!
E
E
Leave them alone and find out in spring.
B
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Yup, no problem. Just pick a day with double figure temps and don't mess around.
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It rather depends on how good you are at spotting queens and/or eggs ...if it is a supercedure and she's not marked it might not be that quick an inspection and I'm a believer in only inspecting when you have a reason to inspect.
The question I'd be asking myself before opening them up is 'What am I going to achieve apart from satisfying my curiosity ?'
1. If there are no eggs and he can't find a queen they may or may not have one in there.
2. If there are eggs he's got a queen and all may be well.
If either of the above ... well, what have you achieved at this time of the year >
1. You can't requeen and they may survive for a few months at which point you can do something about it (be it re-queen or combine what's left with another colony).
2. You might as well have not disturbed them as it may have done more harm that good opening them up.
I'm with Swarm .... leave them be for the time being, they will have propolised everything up tight, they are hunkered down - all you are doing is making work for them one way or another by opening them up.
I see no point, other than satisfying your curiosity, which is never a good reason for inspection.
B
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Knowing if your hive is really queenless or not seems quite an important thing to establish. It means you are either reassured or if her majesty is dead it means you can get set up to unite those bees to another queen right colony. Perhaps they will need to be moved adjacent to another hive before doing this in decent warmer weather. Cold weather is a good time to be moving hives around an apiary.
A quick inspection now will get you ahead of the game and is certainly not an inspection driven by idle curiosity.
A quick inspection now will get you ahead of the game and is certainly not an inspection driven by idle curiosity.
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If you found a hive queen less at this time of year would you combine with a queen right hive straightaway?
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Well ..Let's go back to the original post ... the colony has visible DWV - so I wouldn't be combining them with another.
It's had a heavy varroa load - so I wouldn't be combining them with another unless I was sure that the varroa load was well treated and reduced to at least manageable levels.
He's treated with MAQS which has form for killing queens or at least damaging their ability to lay and has already dribbled OA in December which many beekeepers are taking the more modern stance that it's not a great treatment for bees compared to say sublimation. So.. the colony might be weakened anyway.
It was a late swarm but autumn was very mild and a supercedure queen could have got mated and still be in there .. but she won't be marked.
One of the symptoms of CBPV is nibbled wings so it might be a colony that has more problems than just varroa propensity and DWV .. and you are talking about combining with a healthy colony and prior to that siting them adjacent to a healthy hive ?
I really can't see any benefit in fiddling about with them now .. they will either survive, can be treated for varroa without opening up (£17 12volt OA sublimator on ebay) any time you like. Check the varroa drop by all means after sublimation - no need to open them up. See how they get on... my money is on this colony being a doomed one .. in which case they won't survive till spring and will dwindle ..
Sorry, but I do, occasionally, wonder if you take up a position on here just to be adversarial because there is not one ounce of good sense in what you are saying above.
B
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You won't be combining them., they aren't your bees to combine.....
LOL
So you are saying Enrico and I are idiots for suggesting a quick examination?
B
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Not at this time of year, but it gives you time to move hives around if needed. Would you directly amalgamate two hives that were, say, 30ms apart? I also said in my original post on this that you would wait for good weather.
And if a second queen is present then it solves the problem and gives relief of mind.
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I never suggested anyone was an idiot. I merely pointed out what I would do in the same circumstances and pointed out the potential disadvantages in the advice you were giving.
Enrico I have the greatest respect for ..his advice is usually well thought out and on the money. He does caution about not chilling them as well though ...
B
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You should see the utube vids of Mike Palmer opening some of his nucs up with 6 inches of snow on the ground. Then you might understand that what Enrico and I proposed will cause no damage in yet another UK mild winter.
It's practical beekeeping.
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Practical beekeeping in Mike Palmer's circumstances it may be ... but not in the circumstances of the OP and your post regarding putting a potentially diseased and varroad prone hive next to one that was healthy and contemplating combining them .. in my very humble opinion - NOT practical beekeeping.
What was that post of yours a week or so ago .. something to do with holes and ceasing to dig when you've reached the bottom ? Perhaps take a little of your own advice ?
B
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You need to reread the OP. Colony was treated with Maqs and OA trickled and as stated an "odd bee showing DWV". and you reckon it's diseased and varroa prone....I don't.
.
The advice I give is the advice I would follow myself. That it seems to contradict yours and others is of no concern.
I'll bet Monarda wishes he had never asked his question.
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"I'll bet Monarda wishes he had never asked his question." - Far from it Beefriendly I am enjoying the lively discourse and am appreciating the various points of view and truly thank those who posted their thoughts.
Dave
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