Acute Winter Kill

[manek]

sounds more like just bees been dead for a while and got damp and claggy

SImilar here: I lost three colonies in December - half the total. One looked a bit like late queen failure, with a few bees on the frames, a light sprinkling of bodies on the floor and a handful of play cups, but of the other two I have no idea. There were simply no bees, just a dozen or so on the floor and none - zero - on the frames.

They got Formic Pro after the harvest in August, and OA sublimation in mid-December. If the varroa/viruses got them, they'd be in the hive somewhere. I don't understand what's happened...

 

[Swarm]

SImilar here: I lost three colonies in December - half the total. One looked a bit like late queen failure, with a few bees on the frames, a light sprinkling of bodies on the floor and a handful of play cups, but of the other two I have no idea. There were simply no bees, just a dozen or so on the floor and none - zero - on the frames.

They got Formic Pro after the harvest in August, and OA sublimation in mid-December. If the varroa/viruses got them, they'd be in the hive somewhere. I don't understand what's happened...

When was the last time you saw brood? I'd say a good chance Formic Pro killed your queens.

 

[manek]

When was the last time you saw brood? I'd say a good chance Formic Pro killed your queens.

I didn't fully inspect much after July when I took the harvests off on the grounds that I don't like disturbing them more than necessary. The Formic Pro went on in mid-August and by the end f September, I had fondant on.

But what's odd is that all six of my colonies, three each in two locations, got the same treatment but only the three in one apiary have disappeared.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

CBPV - often also associated with a heavy varroa load ... it can really decimate very large colonies ...

CBPV usually leaves a humongous pile of dead bees as they give up trying to clear it.
To me, it sounds more like your bog standard winter dwindle which could be attributed to a number of causes, varroosis, queen failure or nosema ceranae being the usual suspects

 

[manek]

CBPV usually leaves a humongous pile of dead bees as they give up trying to clear it.
To me, it sounds more like your bog standard winter dwindle which could be attributed to a number of causes, varroosis, queen failure or nosema ceranae being the usual suspects

Definitely looks like a dwindle - but where have the bees gone? They'd usually be piled up on the floor. There were none outside the entrance either.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Definitely looks like a dwindle - but where have the bees gone?

That's your classic winter/spring dwindle, they manage to clear out their dead until they get down to the last handful

 

[pargyle]

CBPV usually leaves a humongous pile of dead bees as they give up trying to clear it.
To me, it sounds more like your bog standard winter dwindle which could be attributed to a number of causes, varroosis, queen failure or nosema ceranae being the usual suspects

Yes ... I accept that ... Queen failure for a variety of reasons seems to be a regular occurrence in recent years and most things that cause dead outs appear to have some association with varroa. It was Robin's comments that the bees were black and hairless which is a classic CBPV indicator that led me in that direction but you are right ..once CBPV gets hold there are normally a lot of dead bees on the floor.

 

[manek]

That's your classic winter/spring dwindle, they manage to clear out their dead until they get down to the last handful

Thinking about it, the three hives which died were in full sun, south facing. Formic Pro treatment was in August, lots of sun, max temp on the instructions is 29.5 deg. C. Which could have been exceeded in those three hives - that's the common factor - but not in my other three, which are in shade.

 

[rdartington]

CBPV - often also associated with a heavy varroa load ... it can really decimate very large colonies ... very quickly.

Thanks - it did happen quickly - say 2 to3 weeks.
I am being punished for feeling I had bred a vr resistant strain.
Now have new vaporiser plus motorcycle battery. From memory £27 + £29 delivered.
2/3 of cols are now showing dark bands on vr board - so have emerging brood.
I am assuming vaping is much too late - November would have been better. Will now try vaping 3 times at 10 day intervals. Yes?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Thanks . Will now try vaping 3 times at 10 day intervals. Yes?

Five day intervals

 

[rdartington]

sounds more like just bees been dead for a while and got damp and claggy

No, I think not In this case.
Bees were flying pretty well on mid December. Piles of dead bees on floor were dry. It was just the palm sized patch hanging on dead that were smooth and black
Classic CBPV apparently.
Ouch!!!

 

[rdartington]

Five day intervals

Right - I‘m on it!
3 application is right?

 

[Sutty]

Right - I‘m on it!
3 application is right?

Or more!
Doesn't matter if shorter intervals & more treatments

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

three five day applications and the last (fourth) one on day four as a mopup

 

[Sutty]

three five day applications and the last (fourth) one on day four as a mopup

Yes, I was suggesting possible shorter interval in case you know you can't do day 5, then do day 4 and restart the 5 day counter.

 

[rdartington]

Yes, I was suggesting possible shorter interval in case you know you can't do day 5, then do day 4 and restart the 5 day counter.

Slight problem is outside temperature.
my vaporiser says above 4degC
So not before Thursday this week.
Looks like hovering at 5deg after that.
Hives are insulated - does that make outside temp less important?

 

[Sutty]

Slight problem is outside temperature.
my vaporiser says above 4degC
So not before Thursday this week.
Looks like hovering at 5deg after that.
Hives are insulated - does that make outside temp less important?

Well the OA particles may not get into the cluster as well, but they will settle all over the combs etc, and get moved around whenever the bees move around.
Insulation may mean they are more mobile.

 

[pargyle]

Slight problem is outside temperature.
my vaporiser says above 4degC
So not before Thursday this week.
Looks like hovering at 5deg after that.
Hives are insulated - does that make outside temp less important?

I find, with my well insulated hives (and clear polycarbonate crown boards) that my colonies are still active even when the ambient temperatures are in single figures I would go for it ... the sublimate will be in the hive and they will break cluster at some point.

 

[user 819]

If the bees aren't tightly clustered in the poly then yes go ahead and treat.

 

[user 819]

I have just found a colony dead with only a palm-sized patch of dead bees left on comb . Lots of stores remaining. . Bees were hairless and an even deep black all over.
`Virus? Which one ?

I doubt if one can be 100% certain though CBPV is highly likely given the black hairless bees, in early to late spring it is easier to spot the early signs of CBPV as we tend our bees , checking for expansion/build up, swarming, disease and now viruses (CBPV) . During the later part of the year as we leave the bees alone from late September onwards to prepare and seal up for winter then any early signs of the virus will/can to easy to miss , the only time we know something was/is a foot is when it is too late.
CBPV in a strong colony if noticed very early is survivable weaker colonies most likely less so, 50% or so of bees are likely to be lost including 50/60 % of brood as there are far fewer bees to look after and keep the brood warm and fed.
My spring weaker colony on 9 frames of brood had little chance the shear lower numbers could not raise enough bees to keep up with those dying despite utilising the no floor method to prevent mortuary bees form passing the virus, the strong double brood deep national had a strong queen and she was operating on 17 frames of brood. This diminished to 8 frames of brood but there were still a decent number of bees to to keep warm and feed the new brood being laid.
Removing the floor for a free fall out of the dead is 100% required to prevent virus spread , my strong colony pulled through and I noticed a change after 3 weeks as the sealed brood frame count increased again . Steadily rising to 15 /16 frames of nice laid up brood, I kept them on the open floor well into July before giving them protection agian with the UFE floor.

Credit partly goes to the other Neil here in W.Sx who also had CBPV and suggested and showed his cone shape open floor , I copied the simple solution which worked very well . The dead bees falling simply collected in a central heap underneath instead of scattering over a larger area so clean up was easier.