Dave Cushman's Site

[pargyle]

Has anyone noticed that Roger is gradually adding his 'opinions' to the old site. One of the things that I always liked about Dave Cushman's original site was that it was immensely impartial .. just facts, dimensions and accumulated beekeeping information - no opinions or recommendations offered.

I know Roger has the remit to maintain the site from Dave and credit where it is due - it's a mammoth task he has taken on and there are a number of improvements already visible in the way it can now be used, more easily, to find things you are seeking. It's a fabulous resource for all beekeepers.

I just wish he would keep his opinions out of it ....

For example:

http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/nat1412.html

Opinionated twaddle - which cannot be challenged on the website.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Opinionated twaddle -

Well, i disagree, i have no problem with Roger adding his opinion at all, or Dave Cushmans opinion on certain things either.

 

[yeogi75]

is he suggesting they are being used for honey production, are they 14x12 brood boxes or honey supers.

 

[mbc]

There is the factual bit, then further paragraphs of opinion, clearly defined as such, and then a caveat of try before you buy and "..do what you think is best for you. Don't let me put you off", fair enough non?
As it happens I agree with the opinion and have no problem with the presentation, this wouldn't be so if there was any passing off of opinion as fact.

 

[Erichalfbee]

****

 

[farbee]

No problem for me either.
Seems reasonable well balanced.
Not sure about less prolific bees giving same or better yield of honey. Really?

 

[itma]

The 14 x 12 has been in existence a long time, although it has only recently come into common use. It is known as the B.S deep box, where many beekeepers refer to the standard brood box as the "deep" when it isn't.

Wrong.

14x12 is the "extra deep".
The Deep National is the one that takes "DN" frames, which is the errr ... "standard brood box".

I don't know of any extractor that will take them ...

I do.
I chose my Park 9-frame radial in the knowledge that, with the (cheapish) tangential screens, it can (unlike some other 9 frame radials) accommodate 14x12 frames.



Sadly, the whole page is dominated by the underlying OPINIONS - specifically
"If your bees are prolific, then consider changing to less prolific bees."
and
"In my opinion they are too large for the non - prolific bees that I believe perform best in the U.K"
even though he argues with himself
" I can only assume {the modern British bee} is thought to be more prolific than bees previously were. This doesn't make too much sense to me, as I haven't detected any change in the prolificacy of bees in my time".

Does he really do much manipulation of brood frames when they are "full of honey"?


Frankly, I think he should have stated plainly "I believe that if your bees need more space than a single-brood national offers, then you should change your bees to blacker, more British, ones. And consequently I have no interest in bigger brood boxes."



Its a page of opinion.
And containing both mis-informed and un-informed opinion at that.
Lacking facts.

Sad.

 

[pargyle]

Well ... I just think it was always an encyclopaedic site and Dave Cushman (as far as I ever saw) refrained from comment of any sort on the site itself ... people do use it as a source of (normally) very accurate information and as we all know there are many opinions in beekeeping - often all of them right in one way and another.

To add opinion to DC's site, IMO, actually detracts from it rather than adds to it. Despite Roger's caveats that 'you should do your own thing' one gets the impression that his opinion is what he wants you to take away - rather than DC's vision of the site being a source of factual information from which you take what you want.

Roger's opinion in the link I posted is not balanced by any other opinion ... His book (which I've read) is very much in the same vein .. There's a right way and it's my way ...

Just my opinion - grumpy old git that I am ...

 

[Apple]

passing off of opinion as fact

Try reading the BBKA Basics publication by Yates & Co if you want to read passing off of opinion as fact.
I have found the Dave Cushman pages an inspiration and had not noticed any opinionation creeping in.






James

 

[farbee]

I do find the frames cumbersome to handle and its good advise to actually handle them before you go down this route. Glad I did before listening to the 14 x12 users.

 

[farbee]

I do.
I chose my Park 9-frame radial in the knowledge that, with the (cheapish) tangential screens, it can (unlike some other 9 frame radials) accommodate 14x12 frames.

Its fair to say it does limit your options though. He didn't say there wasn't one.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Frankly, I think he should have stated plainly "I believe that if your bees need more space than a single-brood national offers, then you should change your bees to blacker, more British, ones. And consequently I have no interest in bigger brood boxes."

Probably what he means here too

Although I have never owned poly hives..........


It is my strongly held view that bees are very much softer than they were when I started beekeeping. I believe there may be several reasons for this, including the importation of the very soft yellow bees and the mollycoddling of them by beekeepers, allowing them to survive when natural selection would soon sort them out. I suspect that keeping them warmer may make the situation worse.............................

I have a positive attitude to most things and I have no problem with other beekeepers using these hives

 

[BeeJayBee]

I think the page mentioned is about right, especially at the end where RP writes:

For those who haven't got 14 x 12, but are told how wonderful they are, I suggest you back off a bit. Handle them at other people's apiaries on several occasions before being persuaded to change to them. If you are satisfied they are an improvement on what you already have, then use them. If your bees are prolific, then consider changing to less prolific bees. You may find they are easier to manage, give the same or more honey and need less feeding.​

I think far too many new beekeepers are advised to buy a standard National and also to get Carniolans because they are reputedly gentle, but these new beekeepers aren't prepared for either the larger colony or the propensity for swarming - so we're ending up with a lot of Carniolan blood in the local gene pool, with the obvious knock-on effect. Requeening is a lot cheaper that buying new equipment to cope with bigger colonies.

It is RP's site now and in fairness I think that if he doesn't add to it then in time it would fall out of favour - and even criticism is good publicity. It's a heck of a thing to take on, maintain and try to update. I don't think there are many that would even attempt it.

At least RP hasn't done what somebody else did and copy the lot, upload it elsewhere, and then pretend it was his own - until challenged and almost forced to put an acknowledgement on each page!

 

[Mellifera397]

I personally think opinion from an experienced person adds to the page. Experiences are useful to the beginner as well as facts and figures. I'm sure that those learning about beekeeping will have the brains to consult several sources of information, other beekeepers, Books, websites and the educated, eloquent (sometimes grandiloquent) experts that frequent this forum and others.

Sorry, but I find myself cordially disagreeing with the OP.

M

 

[Alabamaeee]

As long as the page author is identified I see no problem. You can then take or reject the advice of the author whether it be the late Dave Cushman or Roger the present site manager.

 

[BDCS]

I have limited experience of 14x12 but personally I dislike them. One of the previous posters is also very persistant in his "views" at association meetings having only kept bees for a similar short time as myself. Any opinion if offered as advice can be taken or not. Should you dislike the opinions on that site then you could avoid it but I like to hear both sides and make my own mind up.

 

[dpearce4]

having used 14x12, national and commercial I tend to agree with some of what RP says. they are a pain to use compared to national or commercial. Out of all the hive types I have used I would stick with commercial, but, they have issues to. All hive types have problems so try as many as you can before you decide as it is difficult and expensive to change after.

 

[Hivemaker.]

The 14x12 is an abomination, i really cannot find anything good or useful to say about them at all, of course this is just my own personal view of the objects.

 

[Ely]

having used 14x12, national and commercial I tend to agree with some of what RP says. they are a pain to use compared to national or commercial. Out of all the hive types I have used I would stick with commercial, but, they have issues to. All hive types have problems so try as many as you can before you decide as it is difficult and expensive to change after.

I agree. I have two commercials and they are breath of fresh air when compared to my poly 14x12. Having said that, I much prefer standard national overall and my poly 14x12 will soon be chopped down to size. I can't stand the 14x12 frames, absolutely awful. I don't bother buying national shallows now either.

 

[dpearce4]

I use national shallows as having tried to lift a commercial full of honey nearly ended me lol. can shift them around most the time quite easily and can get 20 in the back of my Nissan primera estate no problems empty, well that was before the baby arrived so that will halve the amount of space in the car lol.