Common courtesy please

[susbees]

It goes without saying that plenty of people now use the Internet as a resource, and very often as an alternative to buying a book.

I think that it's called progress nowadays!

There is a HUGE caveat to this...the non peer reviewed copy-and-paste brigade, spreading questionable information (on lots of subjects, not just beekeeping). Academically, students are taught not to reference Wikipedia..although the reference lists can be useful, but relatively speaking there's a lot fewer copied inaccuracies on there than on quite a few websites/blogs etc.

And I agree, searches on forums rarely seem to work that well. Well constructed FAQs are brilliant, covering....help my hive is about to swarm, how do I/should I mark my queen, winter preparation, varroa stuff, no eggs what do I do etc...........but then it would be awfully quiet, wouldn't it ?

 

[Beezy]

I've recently started using this forum and have found most people very helpful and friendly. However, I would say that the set-up of the forum perhaps isn't ideal.

I belong to several other forums (for different subjects) and the sub-catogories and varied menu lists mean that it's much easier to find a specific answer to a topic. When you type in a key word on this one, hundreds of posts come up, often very few of which are relevant.

Everyone posts in the 'General' section here, whereas if this was divided into eg 'Nuclei', 'Health', 'Starting out' etc I think there would be less likelihood of duplication.

 

[Firegazer]

I think a 'Starting Out' sub forum would be a good idea. It could alternatively be called "no question too daft" and would be the place to ask complete beginner questions, or questions where you know the answer is probably out there in a book but you'd rather ask someone who knows.

If experienced beeks wanted to prowl that sub-forum and answer questions about whether to get a National or Langstroth hive, they'd be very welcome to and those that didn't want this 'noise' could stay out of it.

The beginners would know that they wouldn't get sharp answers there, and beekeepers with a couple of years' experience could probably pay back the advice they'd been given by helping the next wave of starters to get passed the first few months. If they didn't know the answer, after a few years of experience, then the newbie could be fairly safe in posting it in the main forum without it being a time-waster.

Can't see a downside to this.

FG

 

[pstafford]

I think a 'Starting Out' sub forum would be a good idea. It could alternatively be called "no question too daft"

I like that idea ! Personally that will be my new home for a while whilst I ask the daft questions ;-)

 

[jimbeekeeper]

Why dont you Google it first?

 

[Somerford]

There is a HUGE caveat to this...the non peer reviewed copy-and-paste brigade, spreading questionable information (on lots of subjects, not just beekeeping). Academically, students are taught not to reference Wikipedia..although the reference lists can be useful, but relatively speaking there's a lot fewer copied inaccuracies on there than on quite a few websites/blogs etc.

And I agree, searches on forums rarely seem to work that well. Well constructed FAQs are brilliant, covering....help my hive is about to swarm, how do I/should I mark my queen, winter preparation, varroa stuff, no eggs what do I do etc...........but then it would be awfully quiet, wouldn't it ?

YEs, but who's to say a factual book is 100% correct ? there are as many views on how to keep bees are there are on how to skin a cat, so to speak.

Jim, I beg to differ but Google isn't the answer. The very fact this forum exists is to offer specific advice, else why are we here at all ?

S

 

[Haughton Honey]

Yes, but who's to say a factual book is 100% correct ?

Nobody. As you rightly allude to. They are simply an opinion.

There's nothing more powerful than the thoughts of a collective if harnessed correctly.

 

[Rosti]

but who's to say a factual book is 100% correct ?
S

I take the point Somerfield, and 'correct' can be a subjective in it's own right and depending on view point. The author of a book is however 'traceable' and you can check their 'credentials'. I am not sure whether Beek'ing qualifies as applied science / artform / husbandry or a combination. In such an instance any reference book is only true from the authors perspective, but a book (as opposed to a posting) does place a lot of information in the one place and allows the reader to form an opinion on the general credability of the author in a wider context. I suspect for many on here pier review and critique appraisal is part of the day job and nothing to be phased by but the practicalities of incorporating that into an on-line knowledge repository is daunting.

I come back to the core of this thread, courtesy from all and 'respect' for a free support service from those posting for advice (that means showing some evidence of making an effort to self help) because it takes time and effort for the 'beek-geeks' to respond to those of us seeking help.

A new-bee section such as that on some other forums (Ref: Firegazer 12:03) may be the compromise route. I would go as far as to argue that in the abscence of a wider author critique the 'thread' system gives a form of peer review / validation. Provided the more experienced are prepared to post and the thread originators are prepared to look past 'quick' / 'direct' english responses to find the knowledge they crave.

 

[Brosville]

A "wiki" need not be inaccurate, and is certainly worth a look - there is good free software available, and suitable volunteers can be "given the keys" to add stuff (which would soon be pulled apart by the users if it were wrong.....). It basically does all the housekeeping and catologueing automatically
I've set up and used pm wiki, and it works well - http://www.pmwiki.org/

 

[BKF Admin]

I am more than happy to set up either a Wiki or a subforum for new beekeeper questions.

Keep the thread running and I will do whatever the majority go with.

Regards the post above about there only being a "General Beekeeping" section,that was done because many beekeepers are better at keeping bees than finding the right subcategory to post in,many are of the age that they are not net savvy and would fail to post as they would be to frightened of putting a question in the wrong section.

Its a big enough job moving questions around without adding more sub cats to the forum.

There are 2 reasons we dont have a beginner section:
1/ Another forum already does and it would of been a copycat.
2/ The forum was void of posts when we started so I never had to many sub cats.

Maybe its about time the forum got a good overhaul though.

 

[merylvingien]

there's nothing more powerful than the thoughts of a collective if harnessed correctly.

resistance is futile!!!

 

[jimbeekeeper]

Jim, I beg to differ but Google isn't the answer. The very fact this forum exists is to offer specific advice, else why are we here at all ?

S

Come on you know me, I was joking about the google bit!

I hate it when people just say "use google"

This thread is like this one

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=5163


This is a FORUM, not a research facility, not a library, not a scientific paper. Just an informal place to "chat" about beekeeping (the reason we are all here)

People need to chill out!

An old saying goes

"If you can say nowt good then say nowt"

People all to easy jump in with their point of views, right or wrong.

 

[plumberman]

Nobody is forcing anyone to answer a post: if it's a daft question then just ignore it, rather than pointing out that it's daft. Someone else will be along to answer it in due course.

As a teacher, the number of times I respond to less than intelligent questions with a "that's an interesting suggestion Johny - what do other members of the class think?" is beyond recall. No point in putting them down - they just wouldn't bother to ask again.

 

[Poly Hive]

I am in agreement that a sub forum for beginners and the "silly" questions is a good idea.

"Silly questions" are the unasked ones by the way.

It does get a bit boring though when the test frame for example has been posted on times and yet it is still asked every other day. "I have no brood......"

I rather like the wiki idea though and it must be worth a trial at least.

PH

 

[SixFooter]

Can I just say that this is the best forum I have ever used. There is less stick dished out here than on any of the others. Try one of the DIY forums for example and you'll see what I mean. Replies are mostly sarcastic, unhelpful or downright agressive. Not so here!

btw What's a bee space

 

[Drew]

resistance is futile!!!

Hey!!! You didn't bad rep me on another (Non-Bee) Forum for using that quote the other day did you??

 

[Rosti]

btw What's a bee space

Right, I'll lower myself to answer that. The 'Bee' Class is a new Mercedes. It follows that the Bee Space is that required to place it in a car park and still open the doors.

 

[tonybloke]

It goes without saying that plenty of people now use the Internet as a resource, and very often as an alternative to buying a book.

I think that it's called progress nowadays!

it also goes without saying that most of those 'plenty of people' don't read the info on the net before asking questions. they just want other folk to tell them the answers, not to go and research the subject themselves. is this also a sign of progress?

 

[jimbeekeeper]

is this also a sign of progress?

Yes!

 

[tonybloke]

Right, I'll lower myself to answer that. The 'Bee' Class is a new Mercedes. It follows that the Bee Space is that required to place it in a car park and still open the doors.

do you have to allow for 'top bee space' in the height of the garage, to allow opening of the boot without scratching the paintwork on the cieling?