Breeding for mite tolerance

[Norton]

While anything is an improvement, the number of mites in my bees is dramatically lower than these numbers. I counted mite drop from a colony and got 15 mites in 48 days. The colony has not been treated for mites since fall 2004. If they had a large mite population, there would be more than 15 mites in 48 days. This suggests to me that there are a lot of red herrings regarding mite tolerance mechanisms promulgated through the beekeeping world at present.

Do you know if your stock has AHB genes in it?

 

[Finman]

Do you know if your stock has AHB genes in it?

AHB = scutellata or what?

 

[B+.]

As you mention, time of year needs to be taken into account, but in spring, late March Early April I would not let them get much above 3 mites per 100g.

I use natural mite drop to estabish the baseline in the spring. This is because I think losing that many bees at that time of year would affect the colonies development. 100g is a much bigger percentage of the colonies population in spring than it is in July. Even then, I ony take 50g samples every 3 weeks because the colony is usually strong enough to afford the loss.

 

[Hivemaker.]

This is because I think losing that many bees at that time of year would affect the colonies development.

Maybe if you lose the bees, but i don't lose them, although I would consider it a fairly pathetic (very weak) colony that could not afford to lose 300 bees at that time of year.

Not found natural mite drop onto sticky boards to be reliable enough.

 

[Finman]

Maybe if you lose the bees, but i don't lose them, although I would consider it a fairly pathetic (very weak) colony that could not afford to lose 300 bees at that time of year.

Not found natural mite drop onto sticky boards to be reliable enough.

One full Langstroth box has 20 000 bees. 300 bees is 1.5%.
One frame is about 2000 bees. One brood frame produces 3 frames bees.

I just try to clarify what those odd numbers mean.

 

[B+.]

Maybe if you lose the bees, but i don't lose them, although I would consider it a fairly pathetic (very weak) colony that could not afford to lose 300 bees at that time of year.

Not found natural mite drop onto sticky boards to be reliable enough.

Its not that they can't afford to lose them. Its that everything you do has a consequence. If I were only looking at one trait (varroa tolerance), I'd say take them and be damned. I am looking at other traits though and continually bleeding bees for destructive tests in early spring would impact other things.
Thats the way I look at it anyway

I use the natural mite drop only because I have to ensure consistency with methods used by other testers in the group. Non-destructive methods (e.g. sugar shake) would be quite a disruptive test on a windy/wet March day...at least here in Bedfordshire

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

If you don't mind me asking, how will you investigate? Do you have a friendly neighbourhood virologist who'll do the virus sequencing for you? Sounds a bit jokey but that is what is needed so that beekeepers who have not treated for years can find out if their bees have the Type B DWV, same as Ron Hoskins at Swindon. Their queens and nucs then would be worth a premium price!

CVB

"a friendly neighbourhood virologist" is EXACTLY what we all need. When 23andme can "do" our genome for a few quid, it is technically feasible. But until then, I have to try something else.

I am a treater, just an "organic" one. So OA and thymol mainly, NO Apistan etc. And a fairly fixed Autumn / Winter routine.

So what I am going to do is with this colony I am going to try going treatment-free for a while and seeing what happens.

 

[For want of a better word]

Do you know if your stock has AHB genes in it?

AHB = Africanised Hybrid Buckfast
The ones that produce more honey and are totally mite resistant?


Yeghes da

 

[Hivemaker.]

continually bleeding bees for destructive tests in early spring would impact other things.

This is because I think losing that many bees at that time of year would affect the colonies development.

but i don't lose them

No continual destructive tests.

 

[Fusion_power]

Do you know if your stock has AHB genes in it?

My bees are not derived from Africanized genetics meaning specifically that they are not to my knowledge descended from Scutellata. I can show behavioral evidence that they have a strong dose of Apis Mellifera Mellifera plus a good bit of Apis Mellifera Ligustica. Any of you who have been around long enough to remember what the AMM bees acted like will know how my bees behave. I've culled several colonies over the last 10 years because they were too apt to sting and did not have other redeeming traits. I work my bees in a t-shirt with no veil and no gloves.

 

[midnight sun]

What nonsense!
The blood vessels constrict or dilate to regulate heat. This has nothing to do with blood pressure which is controlled by the beating of the heart.

All of this is and has nothing to do with varroa mite tolerance

Differential between systolic and distystolic is, but the overall pressure with regards to external forces is controlled by angiotensins and treated by inhibitors.
As to 'off topic'....I agree with that though.

 

[midnight sun]

Well back to this from Hivemaker http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3270456/ Honey treatment for hypertension.

Having read the report (why do they not speak simple English for the likes of me?) I can only come to the conclusion that there is some evidence that some food stuffs (including Honey) can produce some oxidative stress reduction resulting in lowering hypertension. It appears that it is not guarantteed for all physiological types and with varying degrees of success. I thought that the use of a particular type of honey ( Tualang Honey) could sway results due to the possiblity that there could be something perculiar to that particular type of honey. The nectar may contain a unique constituent from the trees of source that 'ordinary' honey did not possess or had a lower level.
My veiw is that I hold my hand up to the possibilities of hypertensive lowering by honey, I would not gamble on this and would not advocate the abandonment of perscribed medication in it's place. (I would be negligent to do so) It also has a risk that long term you could put a couple of pounds on.
Thanks for the increase in 'hypertensive stress' having to read that report Hivemaker....your off the Christmas card list!

 

[Norton]

My bees are not derived from Africanized genetics meaning specifically that they are not to my knowledge descended from Scutellata.

Interesting. As AL is an AHB designated state how do you avoid genetic pollution of your stock? II?

 

[Finman]

I can only come to the conclusion that there is some evidence that some food stuffs (including Honey) can produce some oxidative stress reduction resulting in lowering hypertension.

"High blood pressure (hypertension) rarely has noticeable symptoms, but if untreated it increases your risk of heart attack, heart failure, kidney disease, stroke or dementia.

Over 5 million people in England are unaware they have high blood pressure, yet it affects more than 1 in 4 adults.

The only way of knowing there is a problem is to have your blood pressure checked.

All adults should have their blood pressure checked regularly (at least every five years). Having this done is easy and could save your life.

Find out more about getting a blood pressure test."

Figure 2. Patients with pulmonary hypertension in the UK National Pulmonary. Hypertension Service (on 31st March each year)

Medical treatment 5 fold rise in 10 years

http://bjcardio.co.uk/2015/05/pulmonary-hypertension-in-uk-clinical-practice-an-update/

.

 

[Finman]

.
And about mite tolerance breeding....

I give a free advice. B+ start to take orders of mite tolerance queens just now, and then he rears them some thousands.

If he does not mind, he could give larvae from good hives, and 2 hive owners change the larvae in swarming cells. It does not take long when whole Britain has mite tolerant bee stock. 5 years, I would say.

If Gotland isle in Sweden is an experiment of mite tolearnt bees.
Britain would be the first country in the world which does not need any more mite treatment.

 

[B+.]

.
And about mite tolerance breeding....

I give a free advice. B+ start to take orders of mite tolerance queens just now, and then he rears them some thousands.

Britain would be the first country in the world which does not need any more mite treatment.

Thank you for your advice Finman but I am not satisfied yet.

 

[Fusion_power]

Interesting. As AL is an AHB designated state how do you avoid genetic pollution of your stock?

Africanized honeybees are only present in the extreme southern part of Alabama and are unlikely to advance from there in their present form. They are adapted to warm climates. They are not adapted to temperatures cold enough to induce clustering and areas with high rainfall. This area has had heavy snow over the past few days with current day temps of 5C and night temps of -3C.

Am I concerned over Africanized bees? No, because we have already proven that their stinging tendencies can be bred out and they can be turned into productive and manageable bees. That does not mean I want them in my bee yards. They have a few other undesirable traits such as casting usurpation swarms and poor wintering.

 

[Finman]

Africanized honeybees are only present in the extreme southern part of Alabama and are unlikely to advance from there in their present form. .

But like Elgon bee has genes from Kenya, and it over winter very well at northern latitude 62 degree. ("Apis mellifera monticola is a bee of the rain forests of the mountains in East-Africa living at altitudes of 2,000-3,000 m, according to literature. ")

Temps are here -30C.

Story of Elgon bee, start 1994

Not very popular after all.

http://www.beesource.com/point-of-view/erik-osterlund/the-elgon-bee-and-varroa-mites/

 

[Hivemaker.]

Africanized honeybees are only present in the extreme southern part of Alabama and are unlikely to advance from there in their present form.

Could they of advanced, but not in their present form?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Africanized honeybees are unlikely to advance from there in their present form. They are adapted to warm climates. They are not adapted to temperatures cold enough to induce clustering and areas with high rainfall.

strange innit - how on earth does apis mellifera scutellata survive in Lesotho then - especially where I was with torrential rain in the rainy season (as opposed to extremely heavy rain later in the autumn) although they didn't get much rain at winter as it was snowing and regular nightime temperatures below freezing.