Breeding for mite tolerance

[Finman]

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Some explanations

http://www.dissertations.wsu.edu/Dissertations/Summer2008/d_delaney_070108.pdf

GENETIC CHARACTERIZATION OF U.S. HONEY BEE
POPULATIONS, 99 pages

WASHINGTON STATE UNIVERSITY
Department of Entomology
August 2008
© Copyright by Deborah A. Delaney, 2008

 

[Norton]

But surely as large numbers of hives are taken to California to pollinate the almonds and then migrate to everywhere and anywhere in the USA there is a very high possibility that they could be in an apiary near you, at least for a time and influencing the Varroa resistance/tolerance of your bees.

You are of course correct in that the aggressive behaviour of Apis mellifera scutellata, and its hybrids, can be bred out quite easily. This has already been done by several people.

Apis mellifera scutellata is present and thrives in African Alpine areas, for example on Mount Mulanje at around 2500m with almost daily cloud and downpours with cedar growing, Nyika Plateau at around 2300 with frequent mist, rain and frosts - I know because I have visited both of these places on numerous occasions. Further north on Kilimanjaro we find of course monticola type bees. - the type locality being Mount Meru.

 

[midnight sun]

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Well aware of it Finman. Probably linked to living in this bl**dy country!!

 

[Fusion_power]

Alabama is the only state in the continental U.S. currently with a "no import" law. We allow bees in packages with queens and we allow queens shipped in. We don't allow bees on comb except under certain limited conditions requiring inspection and certification at both ends of the shipment. This is one of the reasons I have been able to maintain treatment free status for a number of years. I don't have thousands of colonies dumped in my backyard polluting the drone pool.

The number of beekeepers in the U.S. who are treatment free is steadily increasing, but the number in Alabama currently outnumbers all the other states combined. The 'no import" law has arguably created a buffer that allowed this to happen.

I've been to areas of Mexico with Africanized bees and have worked them with few issues. I am not an expert on them, but I also do not fear them. They can be managed successfully. They have some unique genetics that may be beneficial in the long term. I do not find their varroa tolerance to be particularly strong mostly because it is based on rapidfire swarming and a measure of allogrooming.

 

[Norton]

The USDA has AL as being an AHB state. Bees could migrate over the state line from neighbouring ones.
Maybe you will get a surprise one day!

http://www.gulfcoastnewstoday.com/area_news/article_0177bf0a-aea2-11e3-a79b-0019bb2963f4.html

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

You are of course correct in that the aggressive behaviour of Apis mellifera scutellata, and its hybrids, can be bred out quite easily. This has already been done by several people.

Apis mellifera scutellata is present and thrives in African Alpine areas, for example on Mount Mulanje at around 2500m with almost daily cloud and downpours

I was at Ha Lazaro high up above the Quithing gorge in the Maluti mountains at an altitude of about 2530 metres and there were Ams honey bees there - I was shown a wild colony that was happily living in an old 40 foot container next to the school - I was also shown another colony that had been living in the roof of the herd boys school a bit further down the gorge and had already survived a couple of winters. The previous evening had seen so much rain that we almost ended up stranded on the wrong side of a rapidly rising river. A week after I left to go back to Maseru they had heavy snow. The nights were particularly cold.
One thing I did find with the bees there was that they weren't particularly agressive and they happily lived alongside people without any issues - I was reliably informed though that some colonies higher up the mountains could be nastier.

 

[Fusion_power]

Norton, I've worked A. M. Mellifera bees that were the equal of any Africanized colony. This was long before Africanized bees were present in the U.S. Not only that, but Steve Taber documented importation of A.M. Scutellata into the U.S. to the Baton Rouge bee lab back in the 1940's. They did not spread and take over back then mostly because they are not well adapted to the climate. They are tropically adapted bees. Why are you fixated on African genetics? They are just bees. They can be managed. They can be bred for gentleness and productivity. They are totally unadapted to the UK climate so they are unlikely to gain a foothold in your colonies. Of all the problems beekeepers face at this time, Africanized bees are pretty low on my radar.

 

[Finman]

Not only that, but Steve Taber documented importation of A.M. Scutellata into the U.S. to the Baton Rouge bee lab back in the 1940's. They did not spread and take over back then mostly because they are not well adapted to the climate. .

But genemapping has shown that those genes are still present in USA, and genes have not been in Brazil.

 

[Finman]

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http://altigoo.com/IMG/pdf/ResistanceVarroa_Coloss.pdf

Breeding for resistance to Varroa destructor in Europe* (2009)
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[Finman]

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One story from Holland Dec 2015

https://www.wageningenur.nl/en/news...arroa-mites-may-use-different-mechanisms-.htm

..............the naturally selected colonies rapidly acquired resistance to Varroa mites and are now able to survive without any treatment against the mite.

 

[Fusion_power]

I think finman may have decided to breed varroa tolerant bees. Give him 15 years and he should be there.

 

[Finman]

I think finman :cone: may have decided to breed varroa tolerant bees. Give him 15 years and he should be there.

That is a great idea. My yields would return to half, what I had 45 years backwards.

"...and are now able to survive...".


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[Norton]

Excellent link in post # 190 by Finman. Well worth a read.

 

[Finman]

Give him 15 years and he should be there.

Sure. If I am alive, my age is then 84 y. And handling Dadant frames. Propably I laugh myself to death in this forum when I read these virus things.

Laugh lenghtens the age , they say.



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[pargyle]

Excellent link in post # 190 by Finman. Well worth a read.

Yes ... amongst all the other stuff he posted this was an interesting article on a piece of research that supports my thinking on being treatment free - although I lack the science behind it or the measurements taken in the study.

I firmly believe that bees can survive and evolve in the short term to cope with varroa and we should be collectively treating only when it is absolutely necessary rather than as a matter or rote. I'm not evangelical about this as I recognise it is not feasible for everyone but if colonies show low levels of mites then these are the ones that need to be given the opportunity to try it their way.

The future has to be a balance between mites and bees ... there may be downsides to the process of getting to that point but IMHO it's the only long term solution. Mites and bees living in relative harmony but with the bees in control ?

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Excellent link in post # 190 by Finman. Well worth a read.

It needs reading in light of the recent discoveries re DWV, with the question in mind "did they miss the point."

 

[For want of a better word]

Yes ... amongst all the other stuff he posted this was an interesting article on a piece of research that supports my thinking on being treatment free - although I lack the science behind it or the measurements taken in the study.

I firmly believe that bees can survive and evolve in the short term to cope with varroa and we should be collectively treating only when it is absolutely necessary rather than as a matter or rote. I'm not evangelical about this as I recognise it is not feasible for everyone but if colonies show low levels of mites then these are the ones that need to be given the opportunity to try it their way.

The future has to be a balance between mites and bees ... there may be downsides to the process of getting to that point but IMHO it's the only long term solution. Mites and bees living in relative harmony but with the bees in control ?

A bit off tangent... I am allergic to dust mites, the wee beasties that just love to live in carpets, munch on dog hair and human skin, in nice insulated, unventillated centrally heated houses.
There was a time that I regularly Hoovered the carpets and even used the " Shake an Vac", pyrethum loaded carper deponger /cleaner.

I still sneased a lot

Now I have solid wood floors and have convinced my children that carpets are things that the Bedouin hang up on their walls!!

Now I do not snease

Any parallels here??

Mytten da

 

[bjosephd]

This thread has been both utterly hilarious (like watching a verbal WWF wrestling match between beekeepers), and truly fascinating and relevant.

So I understand how a prolific beekeeper, with many hives, can breed and select for mite tolerance... very crudely put - if the hive survives breed from it; if the hive dies, don't.

But how might one breed for mite tolerance and go treatment free with very few hives and if you're starting from relative scratch.

I'm coming into spring with two untreated hives that were new swarms last year, and due to fatalities both have young queens mated late last summer.

Hive Alive in their syrup last autumn is as close to treatment as I have got. (I know this is not treatment... but it's an additive).

I began a 'program' of foundationlessness last year which I hope to consolidate this season.

So I can breed only from hives that survive, but if I lose two hives, I then have no survivors to breed from! At this stage I don't want to be going for crazy increase.

Any ideas?

Or just keep trying and dying until a get a tough surviving hive. Seems like pretty depressing beekeeping.

(p.s. or should I start this as a new thread as it could be helpful and interesting for other wannabe treatment free beginners/small time keepers who might not bother trawling through this mega-thread?)

 

[Erichalfbee]

Any ideas?
Well, you could start by trawling through the forum to locate those who are treatment free and beg a queen or two?

 

[pargyle]

But how might one breed for mite tolerance and go treatment free with very few hives and if you're starting from relative scratch.

BUT ....Breeding for mite tolerance may not be necessary ... I started out with a swarm and decided (for a variety of reasons) that I was not going to treat for varroa .. I have five good colonies that have all descended from that original swarm and one that came, last year, from a compost bin cut out from miles away from home. They are all surviving and look healthy ... it's too early to inspect properly but through the clear crownboards and on the landing boards they seem fine.

So ... I'm NOT trying to breed selectively, I haven't lost a colony yet for any reason and it's working for me ...

The worst case scenario is that you do lose your bees ....but before that happens, as a vigilant beekeeper, you will see the signs of a weakening colony .. heavy mite fall, DWV, lethargy, reducing numbers, dysentry etc. ... all associated with a varroa infestation that has become out of control (and YES - I've seen that in other colonies - I look after one that seems to attract every bloody varroa mite in the county no matter how much it gets treated) and it's not too late to give them a hand with an OA Sublimation.

Some colonies seem to be targets for varroa mites and yet colonies next to them have very few ... I don't begin to understand why ... it's such a complicated set of factors that there is, at present, an element of luck involved in becoming treatment free - certainly as a hobbyist with just a few hives there is going to be a risk ... but until you take that risk with a colony or two - you won't know.

The thinking that 'Your bees will die if they are not treated' does not always hold true ... it might have done once upon a time ... but it's not always the case now.