Bees Out of Hell - PURE EVIL!!!

[Busy Bee]

Hi,

Last year I had really bad bees and quickly let them expire!!.

I got a new queen but I'm telling you these are worse, I have never been attacked whilst away from the hive but today I got pinged about half a km from the hive and also anywhere within 100m's. They are getting worse by the day.

What is the best method to stop this as there are no quuens or swarms yet. Plus point is very hard working and excellant build up, good house keepers.

Thoughts please!!!


Busy Bee

 

[mbc]

Requeen with something good as soon as you can .

 

[VEG]

Keep away until you can get a queen

 

[oliver90owner]

As mbc initially. But if you can put up with them until swarming time, maybe you would like to take Q/cells and split the hive as many ways as possible (without that queen!) and see if any of the new queens have the traits you might prefer in your bees.

You could call it a day if they are as bad, and reunite the nucs with a docile bought-in queen, or queen cells derived from your other colonies, if there was not a single one or two which were better tempered.

Your choice; end that particular line shortly by requeening, or try to develop the good traits and lose the bad tempered one.

Look at your records for varroa drop and treatments required. If they were able to get along without outside help, they may be worth persevering with. If nothing exceptional c/f your other colonies, just requeen at the earliest opportunity.

You might want to remove drone brood from that colony, if anywhere near your others!!

Regards, RAB

 

[Busy Bee]

I'm thinking of removing queen regardless as I feel they are dangerous not bad tempered they're that bad, although they have no mite drop...

Busy Bee

 

[Midland Beek]

I am assuming you have checked for the obvious, like on the point of starving or queenlessness.

 

[MuswellMetro]

Hi,

I got pinged about half a km from the hive and also anywhere within 100m's. They are getting worse by the day.

Busy Bee

500m !, are they AMM or just mongrels, only had one mass attacked to 50m once which was due to my wife washing my bee suit in double the amount of concentrated wash conditioner ..even i thought it ponged

 

[Busy Bee]

I am assuming you have checked for the obvious, like on the point of starving or queenlessness.

Plenty of Stores, Had 4 frames of capped brood 2 weeks ago, queen was there still marked, probably my most advanced hive at present. Will know better this weekend with the hive inspection, temps around 16-20 c Sunday.

I bought some some ground on MARS maybe I take them there. Huh they probably folow me home....


Busy Bee

 

[Annrbel]

We have one hive that attacks, but only when they have been opened, they calm down after about 3 days. They would follow en masse and take a good 20 minutes to finally leave us alone. Even their winter oxalic acid treatment was full launch. We haven't opened them yet this year and are planning minimal interference, whilst monitoring mite drop every few weeks. You indicate otherwise all good strengths, so maybe experiment as we are doing by letting nature alone as much as possible. Last year that hive was an amazing producer of honey, and is building up impressively this year. Probably because they haven't been opened they are currently leaving us alone, even when we are working close by. If someone kept pulling the roof off my home and pulling all my furniture apart, I'd get stressed and angry. Everyone always seems to advocate the killing of the feisty ones as opposed to just working with it and adapting to them.

 

[oliver90owner]

Annrbel,

Everyone always seems to advocate the killing of the feisty ones

One cannot simply ignore them. Often they may be near neighbours and cause grief. I have two colonies which are 'feisty'. They have been stationed in the 'hedge' apiary (the followers) and the others are relatively OK until the roof is removed, or smoke is brought to bear on them - and then all hell breaks out and they actively try to get inside my bee suit and sting, rather than fly towards the light, if they gain access to the hood! I would not want either of those two colonies any where near my house!

Both will be requeened after the OSR flow as my other bees are all reasonably quiet on the frame and quite good natured. Drones will be kept to the very minimum even though they are some way from my other colonies.

One particular colony which easily more than filled the hive with winter stores, is quiet, needed scant varroa treatment and is expanding quickly is ear-marked to provide most of the new batch of queens and I will select the best of those for my 'next season' queens.

Can't be sure what they will be like when full colonies, but the present 'feisty' ones for certain will not be there and any new 'feisty' ones will be replaced next year too (if not before)! I can put up with them, but if there's no advantage over the quieter ones, I am better off without them.

Regards, RAB

 

[Crg]

One cannot simply ignore them. Often they may be near neighbours and cause grief. I have two colonies which are 'feisty'.

I agree you can't ignore them, especially in urban areas.

I keep my bees in the middle of London, work my bees in shorts & often t-shirt (well, I had jeans & t-shirt on today, but when it's warm I just skip the t-shirt) and it's not by chance that they are docile. I mostly don't need to smoke them either.

 

[Annrbel]

If I have learnt one important thing, it is that we simply understand zip, and until we do, we shouldn't interfere. And I know I am guilty, I doubt if our 3colonies would have chosen to sit side by side if allowed to or subject themselves to dangerous chemicals. But putting my bee suit on when I do open the hives is not that big a ***.

Killing drone though I just think is wrong, the bees produce drones of course for reproduction but they are likely to have other benefits too, not least the general wellbeing of the colony. It seems to me that observing that the bees chuck out the drones prior to winter has been taken to mean they are surplus to requirements. But that is for pure survival mechanisms, interesting that with warmer winters in recent years the drones are often kept.

I doubt the people who breed King Charles Spaniels want them to have brain problems, it is just a revolting side effect or trying to shape nature. Maybe the feisty bees are the intelligent ones, recognising their main foe. Conversely, the so called good natured ones are a bit thick and are so demoralised they've given up the fight. We Just Don't Know.

Our first lot of bees came from a very crowded apiary, they arrived with a high count of varroa, and the chinese slipper disease, then the prescribed apiguard treatmet by our bee inspector nearly did for them. We removed the tray, nature intervened and gave us a new mated queen in the early autumn (which we discovered only when we opened late March last year). Then we began to leave them alone. And now they are healthy but bad tempered if messed with.

The truth about the honeybee problems may well be an inconvenient one, lots of hives together may make honey collecting easier and I for one won't stop but I will not have a great density, will try and provide them with varied forage so they have their own medicine chest (yes studies are hinting at this) and otherwise leave them alone as far as my meddling human nature makes possible. I love opening the hives and seeing what is going on inside - I'm human, I'm nosy! But really I can discover most of what I need to know by observing front of hive activity.

 

[oliver90owner]

I totally agree with your comments that drones are likely a beneficial part of the colony (apart from just the genes) but those two colonies would not be safe to put too close to other people. I do not look through my bees as much as some do, but they do need checking regularly, or perhaps irregularly. Those particular genes came from somewhere else or are a combination of more docile bee genes. They will, for the above reasons, not be in the gene pool of my bees. There may be more like them this year, but I, for one neither want to antagonise my neighbours or the farmer where they are now, nor the people who may walk (at a reasonable distance) past the other colony when that is brought back to it's non-OSR position, if moved. They can brood drones later with a new queen.

All my queens are local mongrels and not imported from some exotic breeding stock, possibly along with their local diseases etc.

They are not in-bred (in that they are free to mate with any local drones) which is not the case of a large number of pedigree dog breeds, as you point out.

I am looking to select the more varroa resistant colonies for further queen replacement as well as the other traits. Swarminess I can live with, but I do like a honey crop of some description!

So, yes, I may be selective in what I am doing but not so potentially lethal (IMO) as the high density apiaries (I have no more than 4 full colonies at each site), the GM (or GE) boffins who are placing genes into other organisms, continual in-breeding and using every medical aid in the fight against varroa to name but a few of the problems I see as 'less than good practice'.

I use no more varroa treatments than are necessary (and those do not include oxalic acid unless deemed an important necessity at the time).

Regards, RAB

 

[Poly Hive]

There is an awful lot to be said for not having bees on the premises.

I use out apiaries only. If I get stung or stung badly it is my choice, I am not foisting it on others.

In today's litigatious world it is a serious thought.

Bees are NOT toys. They kill.

PH

 

[Tom Bick]

Last year I had a good lesson on how things can change after a swarming it was a big lesson it has not fazed me and I move forward but it showed me that the bees can be dangerous.

I think perhaps a lot of people over the next few years will have the same lesson.

 

[Poly Hive]

I have been saying this Tom for over 20 years.

Odd how so many very very excited and keen beekeepers vanish.

PH

 

[Heather]

I have 8 hives on my property, but all are calm. One that wasn't (calm when opened- but I am followed- and buzzed for 10 minutes after- not acceptable) has gone to an out apiary and I will requeen from my best hive as soon as the opportunity avails itself.

 

[Annrbel]

RAB hope you read this, be very interested to know what you use instead of oxalic. Hated using it and so would much prefer an alternative.

Just been to see a friend who lives in the local town and has her hive in quite a small garden with good neighbours on either side both of whom were consulted prior to moving the soon hopefully to be 2 hives in. I would say the colony is middle of the road in terms of temperament, the church has a feral colony and is only a couple of 100 metres away, for all I know they could be complete thugs. So we can never completely control our environment. And no I am not advocating aggressive bees urban areas, more trying to determine whether we are responsible for exacerbating their aggression and if changing our practices is better than just destroying a feisty queen and eroding the gene pool - possibly the beekeeping equivalent of babies and bathwater.

I want to sow a square of Echium in the bee garden, don't mind that I have to wait until evening and still wear veil in case the night watchmen have a go, kinda accepted beekeeping differed from stick insects.

 

[buzz lightyear]

after going through my lot yesterday I squashed the strongest Queen. 9 frames of bees with 4 frames of brood. But mean! Merged with nextdoor, weaker (not weak). i take the view that its easier to find Queens at this time of year, so a good time to sort these issues. Also, leave it much later and its a much, much bigger problem. Also, introducing at this time of year I beleave is more successful. Its hard to squash what you think is a productive Q, but do it now, or you will regret it. Speaking from experiance, Dave

 

[mbc]

after going through my lot yesterday I squashed the strongest Queen. 9 frames of bees with 4 frames of brood. But mean! Merged with nextdoor, weaker (not weak). i take the view that its easier to find Queens at this time of year, so a good time to sort these issues. Also, leave it much later and its a much, much bigger problem. Also, introducing at this time of year I beleave is more successful. Its hard to squash what you think is a productive Q, but do it now, or you will regret it. Speaking from experiance, Dave

Couldnt agree more. For years I tried breeding from my best calm bees and moved forward by inches. As soon as I had the courage ( and spare queens ! ) to squash the more aggressive ones and requeen with something nicer the general temperament of my bees moved on by yards or miles even