Extremely aggressive bees. Help needed

[enrico]

So this is really interesting about the drones. (Ignorant learning newbie here). I was on the verge of destroying a colony of nutballs but was persuaded - by some here - not to go down that route. I went in on Sunday and they were actually not aggressive for the first time this year. Glad I didn’t kill them all off but am still co side ring requeening next year. Thank you for the advice!

If they are quiet now then requeen asap

 

[hemo]

Yes requeen asap if you can get hold of a queen or unite and increase again next year.
If you have nice colonies then it is worth expanding the gene pool in your locale by at least trying to add the nice genes to that pool.
The easist way is to add extra laying space (may mean needing to go double brood) and adding a few foundationless combs so they rear extra drone comb, you may or may not see extra mites but if one monitors for mites then thye can be kept in check.
Tbh I find the mite load doesn't really change if extra drone brood is used as otherwise the mites are in the worker cell any how if drone brood isn't available.

 

[Lolly Bee]

i wish I could but off on holiday (first break since January) on Friday so they'll have to wait until early spring and I'll requeen from one of the nice colonies. Provided they make it through whatever joys this winter has to send through!

 

[hemo]

Bees not too much of a priority then ?
Lucky you to have a break, I haven't had a holiday for 22 years as have other priorities.

 

[elainemary]

Thanks. I was leaning towards that method. Hate to do it but I see no other option.

Soap and water is very slow to work. I’ll warn you, no matter what your feelings now, it’s upsetting to do this to managed livestock. The soap has to be at a high strength. Petrol is far more ‘humane’ and quick.

I’ve always been told never make a decision about a colony on one visit. Their stores, as you say, are low. Time of year means they know nectar is short and need to defend their stores. Give them a feed. The colony will smaller in the spring to assess again. I’ve had colonies that change temper for a short period then improve through the season.

Could you take them to a more isolated spot and review in the spring?

 

[Beagle23]

Soap and water is very slow to work. I’ll warn you, no matter what your feelings now, it’s upsetting to do this to managed livestock. The soap has to be at a high strength. Petrol is far more ‘humane’ and quick.

I’ve always been told never make a decision about a colony on one visit. Their stores, as you say, are low. Time of year means they know nectar is short and need to defend their stores. Give them a feed. The colony will smaller in the spring to assess again. I’ve had colonies that change temper for a short period then improve through the season.

Could you take them to a more isolated spot and review in the spring?

I'm very grateful to all of you who have taken the time to reply and offer advice.

Some general updates.

Killing the colony is a last resort, but going with my gut instinct I'm inclined to do so.
I've only been a beek for 7 years but I have handled and been around several hundred colonies in that time and these are BY FAR the most aggressive bees I've come across. Just this morning I was putting something on the compost and I was stung and then chased into the house by a number of them (and stung again), the compost bin is 20 yards from the hive and not visible from it.
Requeening and relocating - I'm not confident enough to go back into the hive to look for the queen, it took me seven visits just to reassemble the hive last weekend (ie. Brood box on stand, add two supers and roof) because I had to keep retreating from the ferocity of the attacks. I was wearing a good quality 3-layer mesh suit too.
My garden just doesn't offer enough sheltered areas to move the hive without endangering my family or neighbours and placing it in the back of the car is a no-go with their temperament.
Burning the hive isn't an option, it's located next to a tree and a large hedge, nowhere in the garden is suitable to turn the thing into a pire.
So as things stand I'm faced with another 6 weeks or so of being stung and associated risk for family and neighbours or go with the soapy water option.

 

[rolande]

I'm very grateful to all of you who have taken the time to reply and offer advice.

Some general updates.

Killing the colony is a last resort, but going with my gut instinct I'm inclined to do so.
I've only been a beek for 7 years but I have handled and been around several hundred colonies in that time and these are BY FAR the most aggressive bees I've come across. Just this morning I was putting something on the compost and I was stung and then chased into the house by a number of them (and stung again), the compost bin is 20 yards from the hive and not visible from it.
Requeening and relocating - I'm not confident enough to go back into the hive to look for the queen, it took me seven visits just to reassemble the hive last weekend (ie. Brood box on stand, add two supers and roof) because I had to keep retreating from the ferocity of the attacks. I was wearing a good quality 3-layer mesh suit too.
My garden just doesn't offer enough sheltered areas to move the hive without endangering my family or neighbours and placing it in the back of the car is a no-go with their temperament.
Burning the hive isn't an option, it's located next to a tree and a large hedge, nowhere in the garden is suitable to turn the thing into a pire.
So as things stand I'm faced with another 6 weeks or so of being stung and associated risk for family and neighbours or go with the soapy water option.

The suggestions to use petrol weren't, I'm sure, to turn the hive into a bonfire. Just use petrol, no matches needed.

Although personally I'd find the geographically closest person that thinks you shouldn't kill them and let them take the colony away -on the understanding that they return the empty hive.

 

[Beagle23]

The suggestions to use petrol weren't, I'm sure, to turn the hive into a bonfire. Just use petrol, no matches needed.

Although personally I'd find the geographically closest person that thinks you shouldn't kill them and let them take the colony away -on the understanding that they return the empty hive.

Yeah I think my humour is a little too dry following the week I've had
I may look into a having them adopted, but I'm not sure why anyone would want them, or indeed how I'd feel about inflicting them on someone

 

[enrico]

Yeah I think my humour is a little too dry following the week I've had
I may look into a having them adopted, but I'm not sure why anyone would want them, or indeed how I'd feel about inflicting them on someone

With petrol. Get a tray that fits in the front entrance with the entrance reducer out. On a cool night slip it two thirds into the hive. Fill it with petrol and push it the rest of the way in. Seal the entrance with gaffer tape immediately. Seal any gaps or holes with gaffer tape and make sure the varroa floor us in if it is a mesh floor. The buzz in the hive will get frightening. Leave them well alone until into the next day. Test for bees by listening to the side of the hive when you knock on it. When you open the hive most of the bees will be in the petrol tray at the bottom. It is not nice so have the tissues ready! But I would have done it days ago if I had been in your position.

 

[drex]

After reading post 66, I too would petrol them

 

[John stockburn]

Yeah I think my humour is a little too dry following the week I've had
I may look into a having them adopted, but I'm not sure why anyone would want them, or indeed how I'd feel about inflicting them on someone

I really dislike the idea of killing them ,about thirty years ago I had a colony that earned me an eviction from a site I had
I moved them and the temperament changed within a week ,give them to someone on the understanding that they are an anti social type ,a chance is better than no chance.
If I lived nearer I would take them

 

[enrico]

I really dislike the idea of killing them ,about thirty years ago I had a colony that earned me an eviction from a site I had
I moved them and the temperament changed within a week ,give them to someone on the understanding that they are an anti social type ,a chance is better than no chance.
If I lived nearer I would take them

We all understand your sentiments but we are not the person in this position. If someone could have taken them they would have volunteered by now. Let's not make beagle feel any more guilty than I am sure he will feel if he has to finish this.

 

[Curly green finger's]

It’s sad really , I took 15 stings ones from a colony on a hot day and I had to walk home some 300 metres I was shaking and all sorts….got home took some piriton and had tea with lots of honey and I was ok , any way colony got sorted with armer and persistence , if I was closer I would take them off you to the op

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

It’s sad really , I took 15 stings ones from a colony on a hot day

Fifteteen! and you think that's a hammering!! I remember, one spring, opening a hive with Pete Davies and Chris B at Saltway honeyfarm and taking (the lads counted) a dozen stings to each index finger I've still got scars from a feral (in all senses of the word) colomy I collceted in 20006

 

[Malcolm B.]

I've been reading this thread with great interest.

I have to ask this, now after some 40 years of playing with happy bees.

What am I doing that's wrong?​

I don't own a 'Bee Suit ' and have never needed one
I think I may have used a veil once this year.
I never wear gloves.
I often spontaneously check a hive wearing a short sleeved tee shirt and jeans.
I only use the smoker very occasionally
I can pull out frames and check for eggs and stores etc. and nobody gets upset.

I've only once had defensive bees (I don't believe bees can be aggressive - acutely defensive, yes) I had, I remember, about six hives on a friend's oilseed rape field. I'd been there every week to check through them and they were pussy cats. They were all very large colonies so in the end I had to wear a veil because they insisted on landing on me and walking all over my face.

Then I visited just as the bloom had dried up. This time they had guards patrolling around the hives and as soon as I approached they were after me. Luckily I had some old overalls in the Landrover and also some work gloves. With the veil tucked inside the overalls and the work gloves over the sleeves I was able to go through each of the hives. I did get the odd sting, but even back then I had no reaction to them.

Afterwards there were thousands of bee stings with venom sacs caught on the front of my overalls. I returned that night, blocked the entrance ports and brought them all home. The bees were a bit sulky and stroppy for two or three days and then back to their usual happy selves.

I read here about stroppy bees and threats of re-queening or euthanasia etc so I have to ask -
Why can't I have stroppy bees, like everybody else?
It seems so unfair!
Why Just me?
What am I doing wrong?

Malcolm B.

 

[Newbeeneil]

Fifteteen! and you think that's a hammering!! I remember, one spring, opening a hive with Pete Davies and Chris B at Saltway honeyfarm and taking (the lads counted) a dozen stings to each index finger I've still got scars from a feral (in all senses of the word) colomy I collceted in 20006

Are we going to have a “I’ve had the most stings” competition?
I was hit by a hive that had previously been fine as I was putting on clearer boards. I was in a jacket and nitriles when I was stung almost 50 times through my jeans and on my wrists and ankles. After retreating for about 100 yds I changed into my Ozarmour to finish the job and then received another dozen or so through the marigolds I donned.
Funnily they were fine when I took the supers off the following day.
If I had the time to get up the A3 I’d take the colony of the OP’s hands. Or if he wants to drop them off to me just south of Haslemere.

 

[John stockburn]

I've been reading this thread with great interest.

I have to ask this, now after some 40 years of playing with happy bees.

What am I doing that's wrong?​

I don't own a 'Bee Suit ' and have never needed one
I think I may have used a veil once this year.
I never wear gloves.
I often spontaneously check a hive wearing a short sleeved tee shirt and jeans.
I only use the smoker very occasionally
I can pull out frames and check for eggs and stores etc. and nobody gets upset.

I've only once had defensive bees (I don't believe bees can be aggressive - acutely defensive, yes) I had, I remember, about six hives on a friend's oilseed rape field. I'd been there every week to check through them and they were pussy cats. They were all very large colonies so in the end I had to wear a veil because they insisted on landing on me and walking all over my face.

Then I visited just as the bloom had dried up. This time they had guards patrolling around the hives and as soon as I approached they were after me. Luckily I had some old overalls in the Landrover and also some work gloves. With the veil tucked inside the overalls and the work gloves over the sleeves I was able to go through each of the hives. I did get the odd sting, but even back then I had no reaction to them.

Afterwards there were thousands of bee stings with venom sacs caught on the front of my overalls. I returned that night, blocked the entrance ports and brought them all home. The bees were a bit sulky and stroppy for two or three days and then back to their usual happy selves.

I read here about stroppy bees and threats of re-queening or euthanasia etc so I have to ask -
Why can't I have stroppy bees, like everybody else?
It seems so unfair!
Why Just me?
What am I doing wrong?

Malcolm B.

You o

I've been reading this thread with great interest.

I have to ask this, now after some 40 years of playing with happy bees.

What am I doing that's wrong?​

I don't own a 'Bee Suit ' and have never needed one
I think I may have used a veil once this year.
I never wear gloves.
I often spontaneously check a hive wearing a short sleeved tee shirt and jeans.
I only use the smoker very occasionally
I can pull out frames and check for eggs and stores etc. and nobody gets upset.

I've only once had defensive bees (I don't believe bees can be aggressive - acutely defensive, yes) I had, I remember, about six hives on a friend's oilseed rape field. I'd been there every week to check through them and they were pussy cats. They were all very large colonies so in the end I had to wear a veil because they insisted on landing on me and walking all over my face.

Then I visited just as the bloom had dried up. This time they had guards patrolling around the hives and as soon as I approached they were after me. Luckily I had some old overalls in the Landrover and also some work gloves. With the veil tucked inside the overalls and the work gloves over the sleeves I was able to go through each of the hives. I did get the odd sting, but even back then I had no reaction to them.

Afterwards there were thousands of bee stings with venom sacs caught on the front of my overalls. I returned that night, blocked the entrance ports and brought them all home. The bees were a bit sulky and stroppy for two or three days and then back to their usual happy selves.

I read here about stroppy bees and threats of re-queening or euthanasia etc so I have to ask -
Why can't I have stroppy bees, like everybody else?
It seems so unfair!
Why Just me?
What am I doing wrong?

Malcolm B.

I've been reading this thread with great interest.

I have to ask this, now after some 40 years of playing with happy bees.

What am I doing that's wrong?​

I don't own a 'Bee Suit ' and have never needed one
I think I may have used a veil once this year.
I never wear gloves.
I often spontaneously check a hive wearing a short sleeved tee shirt and jeans.
I only use the smoker very occasionally
I can pull out frames and check for eggs and stores etc. and nobody gets upset.

I've only once had defensive bees (I don't believe bees can be aggressive - acutely defensive, yes) I had, I remember, about six hives on a friend's oilseed rape field. I'd been there every week to check through them and they were pussy cats. They were all very large colonies so in the end I had to wear a veil because they insisted on landing on me and walking all over my face.

Then I visited just as the bloom had dried up. This time they had guards patrolling around the hives and as soon as I approached they were after me. Luckily I had some old overalls in the Landrover and also some work gloves. With the veil tucked inside the overalls and the work gloves over the sleeves I was able to go through each of the hives. I did get the odd sting, but even back then I had no reaction to them.

Afterwards there were thousands of bee stings with venom sacs caught on the front of my overalls. I returned that night, blocked the entrance ports and brought them all home. The bees were a bit sulky and stroppy for two or three days and then back to their usual happy selves.

I read here about stroppy bees and threats of re-queening or euthanasia etc so I have to ask -
Why can't I have stroppy bees, like everybody else?
It seems so unfair!
Why Just me?
What am I doing wrong?

Malcolm B.

Your having a laugh and it is not something to wish for ,I got told to clear every hive off imeadiatly from the woodland owner or he would bring a pest controler to exterminate the whole lot of hives ,they were stinging people and a child's donkey 200 yards away ,I was a lot younger then and that was the only colony to ever had bothered me but they were mean , after I moved them a few days later no one would have believed they were the same ,

 

[rolande]

What am I doing that's wrong?​

I don't own a 'Bee Suit ' and have never needed one
I think I may have used a veil once this year.
I never wear gloves.

This time they had guards patrolling around the hives and as soon as I approached they were after me. Luckily I had some old overalls in the Landrover and also some work gloves. With the veil tucked inside the overalls and the work gloves over the sleeves I was able to go through each of the hives.

You're just plain lucky I guess.

 

[rolande]

Let's not make beagle feel any more guilty than I am sure he will feel if he has to finish this.

I'd hope beagle won't have the least guilt if the decision is taken to kill them. We all have to do what we can when we can and if leaving them to rampage around the local area is possibly going to open the family to the consequences of legal action after a bad stinging then it's imperative to sort something no guilt needs be attached. I'm sure @Beagle23 grasped a little of the sarcasm in my earlier suggestion that one of the experts should be allowed to sort the situation.

I've had to deal with a lot of bad tempered colonies in the past (most of them tracing ancestry back to John Rawson bees), it's not impossible by any means but to find or fix the issue requires opening up and if that's basically not possible for fear of the neighbors and passers by (and if you're not in the position to move them) then there's a real problem. I did deal with a colony in a similar situation by knocking them out with potassium nitrate soaked card in the smoker before they started flying and replacing the queen but this has its own potential issues not least possible health consequences for the operator.

I *do not* recommend that anyone does the same although it worked at the time.

 

[ericbeaumont]

go with the soapy water option.

Dried puffball mushroom in a smoker is said to knock out bees. I believe I have one at home, and as I pass by Chessington every week...

Want to give it a go? Knock them out and take away, or knock them out and find the queen.