Bees in roof

[chickendave]

I had a call from a lady today who has a colony of bees in the roof space of a two story house

This is the second year the bees have been there and it seems to be exspanding and is very active

Her nextdoor neighbour knocked on her door yesterday demanding she gets rid of them because her daugter is allergic to bee stings and if she gets stung she will sue her

My question is if you have a feral bees in your roof can you be held legaly responsible if they sting someone

The lady who owns the house has not got a problem with the bees being there and does not want them removed

Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated

 

[DarynWebb]

Proving it was one of those bee's would be a very hard job...

 

[VEG]

not a hope in hell of claiming on that one

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

Hmmm.

Legal threats and discussion at this level won't solve this one.
It's about perceptions and fears.
I doubt the child is in fact allergic

Better the neighbour, daughter etc be offered a trip to someone's apiary and get interested in the wonder of bees.

Dusty.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Hmmm.

Legal threats and discussion at this level won't solve this one.
It's about perceptions and fears.
I doubt the child is in fact allergic

Better the neighbour, daughter etc be offered a trip to someone's apiary and get interested in the wonder of bees.

Dusty.

Horrible nowadays everyone thinks the answer to everything is threatening to sue. reminds me of a joke i once heard - what do you call a hundred lawyers involved in a fatal plane crash?
A good start!

 

[Skyhook]

Hmmm.

I doubt the child is in fact allergic

Dusty.

You may be right, but I suspect you are basing this on very little. There are, as we know, people for whom a sting could mean death. If my child was in that category, I would not want a colony next door.

There is a tendency on the forum to assume that the bees are in the right and anyone objecting to them is in the wrong, but it's not always as obvious as that.

The only way forward is for the lady and her neighbour to actually discuss the issues. If the child is allergic, then it would be unreasonable to allow the colony to remain. If not, it's much more debateable. But without hearing the full facts from both parties, probably better not to leap to judgement.

.

 

[thorn]

Horrible nowadays everyone thinks the answer to everything is threatening to sue. reminds me of a joke i once heard - what do you call a hundred lawyers involved in a fatal plane crash?
A good start!

I can be hurt, you know.

 

[thorn]

Think laterally. If you have an adder living and breeding in your garden, would your neighbour have a claim in negligence if the adder crawled into her garden and bit her? the answer there is a resounding "no". Why should a colony of feral bees be different?

However, again thinking laterally, if you allow a load of invasive weeds to go to seed in your garden, your neighbour may complain to the local authority environmental health department and you end up with an order against you to abate the nuisance. A colony of feral bees could be regarded in the same way.

And if harm is caused by the bees, there is even a (probably remote) possibility of a civil action in nuisance.

I've searched the Net and my casebooks in recent years. I've never found a case on England and Wales where a beek has been sued (successfully or unsuccessfully) in either negligence or nuisance for injury or damage caused by bees.

Bear in mind that solicitors won't take a case on on a no-win, no-fee basis unless there are reasonable prospects of success (usually at least a 65% chance), so although someone might seek advice on such a claim, it would not get off the ground unless the claimant was willing to pay if he or she lost.

Don't believe all you read in the Daily Mail or hear from the insurance companies' press agents and parliamentary cheerleaders about spurious claims. Solicitors turn away more enquiries than are taken on. We don't enjoy wasting our time with no prospect of reward.

 

[Ziggymole]

Could the ownership of the properties play a part in this too. ie if the lady with the bees is an owner/occupier then it is her decision, but if her property is rented, local authority, housing assoc etc, surely this becomes the owners problem?

 

[thorn]

Could the ownership of the properties play a part in this too. ie if the lady with the bees is an owner/occupier then it is her decision, but if her property is rented, local authority, housing assoc etc, surely this becomes the owners problem?

Good thought. A tenancy agreement sometimes imposes a duty to be a good neighbour. A complaint to the landlord could result in an allegation of a breach of that agreement. And if both properties have the same owner, there will be covenants for quiet enjoyment that may be enforced against the landlord if the other tenant is causing alleged problems.

 

[user 6228]

post deleted

 

[Skyhook]

Surely, if the child really is allergic, it would simply be common decency to relocate the bees regardless of legal liability. I would be horrified if a child died and it had been within my power to prevent it.

 

[meetballuk]

depends how much of a brat the child is!

but seriously yer dead child would be bad, though should carry eppi pen.

i dout child is alergic also

 

[Sir Quej]

I would love to see the neighbour prove that the offending bee came from the colony in question??? I mean, come on... Would she be able to call witnesses to testify that they saw the bee fly from the colony and make it's way to the girl and sting her?

Not a particularily strong case i wouldnt imagine.

To be honest, I would gladly respect my neighbours request in this instance..... Right up until they came round to my house banging on the door threatening legal action....

At that point they would be told exactly where they should go and exactly what they should do and my heels would become so far dug in, the Ausies would be able to smell my feet.....lol

 

[Ziggymole]

What did people do before epipens etc? Aren't we over protecting our children and ourselves? Alergies were something we lived with 40 years ago, and I doubt there were so many of them, we didn't "anti bac" everything, there were no sell by dates, meat came with feathers and fur on. Our children played outside, got dirty, waded in rivers, made dens and mud pies etc etc in other words they USED their immune system. If society carries on like this we'll all be wrapped in plastic and breathing bottled air!

Rant over

Jan

 

[Sir Quej]

What did people do before epipens etc? Aren't we over protecting our children and ourselves? Alergies were something we lived with 40 years ago, and I doubt there were so many of them, we didn't "anti bac" everything, there were no sell by dates, meat came with feathers and fur on. Our children played outside, got dirty, waded in rivers, made dens and mud pies etc etc in other words they USED their immune system. If society carries on like this we'll all be wrapped in plastic and breathing bottled air!

Rant over

Jan

 

[flemage]

I would just get them moved.......

Yes I can understand the threat would make me wish to say stuff it / you. but I think that as it is a neighbour then a cool head is needed.

The child’s parent has obviously got worked up about it and over reacted but that can happen some times, in that even the thought of challenging some one actually makes us over react and say stupid things.

a feral colony isn’t best placed in the roof where there are nervous people around.

The bees would be better off in a managed hive where they can be treated and not become a disease spreader.

Perhaps ask shouty neighbour to contribute to cost of removal?

or just get it done and simply state that all she had to do was ask, rather than be all shouty about it?

 

[thorn]

What did people do before epipens etc? Aren't we over protecting our children and ourselves? Alergies were something we lived with 40 years ago, and I doubt there were so many of them, we didn't "anti bac" everything, there were no sell by dates, meat came with feathers and fur on. Our children played outside, got dirty, waded in rivers, made dens and mud pies etc etc in other words they USED their immune system. If society carries on like this we'll all be wrapped in plastic and breathing bottled air!

Rant over

Jan

Anaphylaxis existed then as now. Quite simply, some people died, some were left permanently disabled. If you look through the threads on this forum you'll find members describing their (fortunately non-fatal) symptoms. It's something that bee stings can trigger, as can nuts and peanuts, which is why airlines no longer sell them. The neighbour's kid may well have reacted to nuts and have been advised by her doctor about bee stings. It's certainly not something the average non-beekeeper would know about.

 

[oliver90owner]

Don't forget all the modern-day drugs and their side effects.

I think I unwitingly encouraged my wife's allergic reaction to bee stings by virtue of my beekeeping activities over the years. Up until last June she had not been stung by a bee in ten years and that time back then, she had several with less swelling than I got with just one sting!

So who is to blame for these increasing number of allergies reported? Parents and the ever increasing dislike of their children 'playing in the dirt? Or is the human race doomed by this ever increasing 'allergic gene pool'?

 

[Skyhook]

What did people do before epipens etc?

Died?