beekeeping only for rich folks?

[BeeJayBee]

The poly made sense to me on several levels. The insulation being the main one .

Southdown bee farm has a sale at the moment, selling complete poly Langstroths with a full set of plastic frames for a little more than £150.

It isn't 'cheap' (when compared to making your own using plywood), but it's a good hive and if you treat it well will last you for years.

You can't make your own poly hive because the density of the material is completely different, although some people (me included) have made bait hives (for attracting swarms) from polystyrene broccoli boxes and some people in the US have made the bait hives from cool boxes.

If you do a search through DerekM's posts, and look at the pictures in his gallery, you'll see that he's made his own hives from insulation board. http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/member.php?u=6228

 

[pargyle]

If I was a little nearer I would knock a top bar hive up for you in an afternoon ... I've now built two and think I've got the hang of it !!

Have a look at Ratcatcher's posts on this site and his you tube videos - you'll find them very entertaining and it will be food for thought. He's also found on another forum more focused on 'natural' beekeeping.


Philip

 

[rayz_x]

Hi again

I agree the insulation is better with poly - though these are more popular in places that get -40 winters. I think starvation and damp are possibly more important factors here but the big commercial users are going to poly more. I don't know much about their record with AFB - is that a UK statistic?
Ray

 

[itma]

I've spent the last 2 years researching, reading, speaking to beekeepers etc and am confident that I know what I need to know to be able to keep them properly. I do have lots of animals of various species, am a dog behaviourist among other stuff and would never consider getting any animal unless I'd done my homework. ...

So have you handled real bees in real hives?

The poly made sense to me on several levels. The insulation being the main one and the fact that according to what I have read, there has not been an incidence of AFB in poly hives.
...

I rather think that there will have ben many cases of AFB in Europe, where poly hives have been in use for rather longer than here. Discount disease immunity. The bees may be healthier, but they ain't immune.

Weight isn't that big a deal.
Properly dense (and thick) poly *is* a bit lighter than cedar.
But once the box is full of honey, the difference is only a tiny fraction of the total weight.

/ but note that plywood (cheaper than cedar) is quite noticeably heavy ...


If you are interested in Langstroth, you may find that European manufacturers offer some very cheap poly options. However, the handling and transport costs may be prohibitive for small orders.

However to avoid heavy lifting, you would be wise to investigate Top Bar hives. Bees are perfectly happy in them. Downside is a slightly lower honey yield - due in some part to the bees having to make more wax (which you harvest).
They also save you from having to spend money on a honey extractor!
One (slight) problem is that they are something of a minority/speciality interest. Local practical tuition may not be available everywhere.

 

[Andy Duff]

you could offer the site to a beekeeper for a cut of the honey.

gets my vote, of course the rent would be HONEY! And here's me with more bee-keeping equipment than I can point a pointy stick at an nowhere to keep bees

 

[pargyle]

One (slight) problem is that they are something of a minority/speciality interest. Local practical tuition may not be available everywhere.

Yes... that's true ... and you will find that there are some beeks that will brand you as a card carrying, tree hugging, eco warrior as soon as you mention TBH's or worse 'natural' beekeeping but there is a growing community of TBH beeks and there's a growing acceptance of this alternative hive in a lot of local associations.

I'm intent on learning about all forms of beekeeping and I'm enrolled onto a beekeeping course run by my local association (of which I'm a member) starting next week. Whatever you decide to do, a beekeeping course and reading everything you can find, internet or books, will give you the knowledge to make the decision as to what suits YOU.

Good luck with your proposed beekeeping - I'm sure you will enjoy it.

 

[BeeJayBee]

Weight isn't that big a deal.
Properly dense (and thick) poly *is* a bit lighter than cedar.
But once the box is full of honey, the difference is only a tiny fraction of the total weight.

I've got both cedar and poly and, I don't know why, but the poly are much easier to lift when full, it could be that the hand holds are deeper - no idea. But I do know that the cedar will be going in the Spring, permanently.

... gets my vote, of course the rent would be HONEY! And here's me with more bee-keeping equipment than I can point a pointy stick at an nowhere to keep bees

But most beekeepers only expect to pay a rent of one jar of honey per colony.

Agreed that there's a good amount of spending once the hive has arrived - clothing and extra bits and pieces probably at least double the cost of hive.

Then there's the bees!

 

[pargyle]

Then there's the bees!

Joining a local association will usually result in a swarm being offered to a new beekeeper or a nucleus at a sensible price - after last year's poor performance it looks like a five frame nuc from a reputable bee supplier is going to be over the £200 mark.

£200 would cover the association subs, a beekeeping course and still leave enough for some PPE etc. Not to mention the help and friendship of other beeks. No brainer - join a group.

 

[ratcatcher]

I am desperate to start keeping bees. All my life I have kept various small livestock and been self sufficient in milk, meat and eggs. However as my health has deteriorated over the decades, and I no longer keep goats or pigs, I figured I could use the old goat paddock to keep some bees in. However, unless I go and 'swing me 'andbag' down the docks, or win the lottery, I can't see how I can ever afford to start. With hives around £300, plus the cost of a nucleus, and the equipment, it's way beyond my means. So I figured polystyrene hives were the way to go. After all, polystyrene is cheap and easy to make isn't it? Yet according to all the sellers I have seen online, they still cost over a hundred. How on earth can they justify this cost?
So it seems I am doomed to want unless my numbers come up. So, how does one start if one is on a budget?

many thanks to pargyle, always nice to get praise,
I too nearly died when a friend beekeeper told me around £400 to get into keeping bees
I then stumbled upon "bees on a budget" your bee suit,tools,smoker etc can be found via evil bay at quite a cheap price
I started with a small homemade top bar nuc, hammered together from scrap ply in the garden, Im sure your garden/small holding will have suitable timber laying around to make one too

my first cast swarm was collected by myself, from the rails of an underground station

http://youtu.be/JaMiLtfZ4Cw

and I was well and truly hooked on beekeeping

homemade nucs for national frames were then made, again from scrap

but the best deal, was finding a skip locally full up with 6x1 timber, plans were drawn up in my head, for a top bar hive with a difference, two hives were made for a total outlay of around £15-£20

http://youtu.be/li9obrnaRZE

 

[oliver90owner]

beekeeping only for rich folks?

It has been quoted on this forum on several occasions that if you want to make a small fortune with beekeeping, start with a bigger fortune. Might even be someones siggy.

Beekeeping is for anyone, but invalids, by definition do tend to start with a handicap of some sort. Not that it can't be overcome with thought, organisation and some degree of compromise, for most.

I belive that the most popular hive in the world was very likely based on an empty wine crate.

 

[phil edwards]

Is 300 quid the going rate for a new hive in the uk what is the second hand rate? cheers phil

 

[REDWOOD]

The only thing I bought was wood frames and foundations to start, made my own hives with a chisel, hand saw, and screwdriver, It took a bit of time but It's a hobby not a race, become a skip and tip magpie you will be amazed what raw materials you can find, If you can't build them yourself get a younger relative/friend involved so you can share your beekeeping with them. In life there are always options just make sure they are the right ones.
Good luck and welcome

 

[Luminos]

to the forum, onyme - love your avatar

I have cedar WBC hives which are a bit smaller, but when the boxes are full they are still quite heavy.

 

[itma]

Is 300 quid the going rate for a new hive in the uk what is the second hand rate? cheers phil

Hi Phil - what's the going rate in Bulgeria for new and used cars?

You can get a new Poly "National" (takes British Standard frames) brood box, floor and roof (& strap etc) for about £50. Add a couple of Supers, 11 brood frames, 20 super frames, wax foundation for all those frames, queen excluder, etc and you are looking at a £180 package.
Get the thing hand-crafted in knot-free western red cedar and you could well be looking at £300.
The popular "Bees on a Budget" hive package offers the same configuration as a 'cedar' flat-pack for home assembly (not much harder than Ikea) at a price of £145.

A complete, flat packed, National Hive. Made from home grown Cedar from sustainable forests. Timber may have solid live knots. All frames are second quality and made predominantly from Russian Redwood. Full instructions for assembly and all nails and glue are supplied

/ all prices are inclusive of all taxes but not delivery

 

[Winker]

I am desperate to start keeping bees. All my life I have kept various small livestock and been self sufficient in milk, meat and eggs. However as my health has deteriorated over the decades, and I no longer keep goats or pigs, I figured I could use the old goat paddock to keep some bees in. However, unless I go and 'swing me 'andbag' down the docks, or win the lottery, I can't see how I can ever afford to start. With hives around £300, plus the cost of a nucleus, and the equipment, it's way beyond my means. So I figured polystyrene hives were the way to go. After all, polystyrene is cheap and easy to make isn't it? Yet according to all the sellers I have seen online, they still cost over a hundred. How on earth can they justify this cost?
So it seems I am doomed to want unless my numbers come up. So, how does one start if one is on a budget?

I see no one has broke the bad news to you yet?

Its wiser to keep 2 hives at a minimum, this way you can correct any problems you may have during your first few years more easily.

Secondly, for every hive you own, you should have a spare broodbox/roof/floor or at the very least a Nuc. You need some way of controlling swarming during the spring/summer. So if you own two hives i would recommend you own another broodbox/floor/roof and a Nuc at the very least.

Don't worry to much about the price of bees, you can get them free from your local association by going on there swarm collectors/receivers list.

Ps Welcome to the forum.

 

[beeno]

Hi and welcome onyme,
Any old box will do as long as it is water tight and is ventilated appropriately. You can use top bars from scraps of wood and let the bees build their own comb. Go skip dipping - is that what it is called? Remember to ask permission before you remove items from someones skip though. I housed a swarm, albeit temporarily, in a council waste box for paper. Drilled three entrance holes in it (don't tell the council). I was out of gear at the time and had a call. It was my intention to give the swarm away, but hubby said 'Are we doing all this work for someone else'? I was pleased to keep them though. They stayed in this box for three weeks and had seven frames of brood before I got a PH. Join your local beeks, get a swarm. Maybe someone will be kind enough to knock a box up for you. It is a lovely hobby, but a lot of work if you would like to do it properly.

 

[itma]

... After all, polystyrene is cheap and easy to make isn't it? Yet according to all the sellers I have seen online, they still cost over a hundred. How on earth can they justify this cost?
So it seems I am doomed to want unless my numbers come up. So, how does one start if one is on a budget?

Although the plastic material isn't terribly expensive, it ain't cheap (ultimately its made from oil); because the product has to be much denser than packaging poly for durability, it uses much more plastic than a disposable beaker; and the real biggie is that the big moulds are shockingly expensive (tens of thousands of pounds each) - while production runs are tiny compared to... well plastic beakers being made by the million.

If you think its expensive to start beekeeping, you'd be shocked at how expensive it is to start making poly beehives!


How does one start beekeeping on a cashflow-limited budget?
Firstly, don't even consider premium products.
Make do.
Learn skills that can save money - like basic carpentry assembly. As with cars, the best used bargains will be those that require a bit of work -- refurbishment skills can save lots of money! Doing swarm control with a "swarm board" and spare brood box saves you the expense of having an additional spare floor and roof. Generally, the easier, simpler ways need more kit - but you can substitute skills and effort for the lack of cash.
Borrow or hire expensive items of kit that aren't used much -- prime example: the honey extractor - most Associations have one (or more) for their members. See whether friends will lend spare kit for swarm control rather than covering everything yourself. It may be ratty, but it may be good enough to save you laying out more cash.
Mention should be made of learning the skills of improvisation, so you can make use of what is available, rather than buying in more specialist kit.
And network to hear of bargains/retirements and upgraders so that you can hear (in time) about any goodies becoming available at a reasonable price. Again the Association is the best starting point for this.

And never forget that you don't have to own your own bees to learn the practical skills involved in beekeeping. There are always people looking for a helping hand and eager to share their knowledge. Again... did you guess, start with your local association!

 

[Headnavigator]

Forgive me if I've overshot and missed this suggestion by someone else, but if you join a local assoc you should have access to all sorts of goodies at their spring auction and you may be able to get everything you need. It's also a great occasion to get talking to others and more than once when I've started bidding for something there's been a mutter in my ear saying "Got one of those at home, you can have it for nothing," which is the best deal possible!

 

[Ely]

you could offer the site to a beekeeper for a cut of the honey.

Lots of beekeepers are looking for out apiaries. You could help inspect the hives and enjoy the hobby without the heavy lifting.

 

[farbee]

A self assembly hive in the sales can be had for £80/90.