Bee Inspector Visit

[taff..]

good post mbc.

thank you

 

[victor meldrew]

Shame the thread closes on this note as I think the subject of government involvement/interference vs. benefits of bee inspecters is worth airing. For my part I think bee inspecters are hand picked beekeeping experts payed to offer help and advice to the general beekeeping public and in my experience, keep the officialdom side of thing s to the barest minimum and are also independant minded enough to ignore nbu 'best practice' and will offer advice on what they see rather than whats in the book.
If you offfered farmers free vets visits to ensure the wellbeing of their animals they would snap your hand off I'm sure - whats different for beekeepers ?

I use bee-base ,I find it useful . Suitably passworded access to all previous visits is available including any probs . Hive numbers plus all inspection results dated .
I have used it to update my own records ,records I thought were up to date .

The service has got to be an asset , never has beekeeping been under greater threat than today !
Trying to keep abreast of exotic pests brought about by the world becoming a global village is too much for individuals including our friendly troll who assumes he knows everything about everything .
Now that is a dangerous assumption .

John Wilkinson

 

[mhill20]

My cousin has to ear tag all his livestock with ear tags, they won't make us tag our bees! I'd rather tag his Charolais bull than 50000 buzzing bees,or test for TB!!!
Micky

 

[Somerford]

I didn't expect this level of interest on the thread. I am surprised at the stance taken by some beekeepers who are of some years standing who think that to run and hide is the best practice rather than face up to responsibility and ensure that their bees are free of disease and prove it by allowing an independant inspection by a qualified inspector. I might ask what have such individuals got to hide ??

As said before, this isn't about 'big brother government', nor taxing bees either. It was meant to highlight the fact my BDI is approachable and flexible and someone one should value in their Apiary.

Hey ho

regards

S

 

[Poly Hive]

Tax.

PH

 

[Haughton Honey]

I.....an independant inspection by a qualified inspector.....

Not wishing to be rude to any one poster or offend anyone, but if you were to understand the criteria that needs to be met to be employed as an Bee Inspector (and to work for DEFRA in any area of livestock inspection actually) then you might be a little more cautious in making comments like that above.

 

[Somerford]

WPC - being a bit dim tonight due to toothache, meaning ????


regards

S

 

[Haughton Honey]

WPC - being a bit dim tonight due to toothache, meaning ????


regards

S

I mean that in a former life (and much to my regret) I joined what is now the RPA....and worked my way up to being the lead cattle inspector in the region I was in for the 'Inspectorate'.

I'd be the first to admit that my rise to that position was too fast and based upon the fact that there were too few inspectors.....that, and the fact that I'd been an army officer in a past life and so 'they' thought that management was my bag!

It's not something I'm proud of and I left after 4 years as soon as I locked horns with Animal Health over TB reactors within my own herd of cattle (mentioned in a previous post on here).

I have since moved back to where I am geographically originally from and know people around these regions who have been granted 'seasonal bee inspector' roles based upon 3 years' bee-keeping experience.

Go figure!!

 

[oliver90owner]

Our local bee inspector (not so really local actually) is there to help if help is needed. Super guy when one gets to know him!

Some may need more help than others and we all sometimes come up against something that is new to us, or out of the ordinary. He has inspected my bees, of course, but only the once in ten years. They are there to help us all and I would not hesitate to call him if I were in any doubt about something (even bee management). The government is something else. I am surprised they have not taxed home-grown food as taxable income.

I pass on anywhere I might keep, or have kept, bees (far more sites than my normal colony count!) knowing that I will hear if there is a disease problem nearby as I may return to the sites at any time. Well it doesn't work always. An isolated AFB outbreak last year went unnoticed until the affected beek told me about it in the High street! Only about a mile and a half away as the crow flies. The grapevine had the local EFB outbreak nailed down (eventually we knew where and who, but initially did not know where not to move hives to the OSR), but the AFB slipped by.

Number of colonies is no measure of profitability. My colony-count might change like the wind direction and could easily be in at least two, possibly 3, different areas. Actually chasing hives, in my case, could be a full time job for a tax inspector and an utter waste of time. Of course, I am an inept beekeeper and my colonies keep expiring! I have to keep starting from scratch again (must be able to set that off against any previous tax?) etc, etc. All my hives not only swarm but throw many casts each year which are all lost and that leaves but a few inhabitants in each hive! Winter losses - much higher than the national average!

I think a lot of beeks with few hives could easily show heavy losses every year. A taxation nightmare unless it is one's main occupation, or nearly so. I know I would, what with fuel costs for moving hives one or two at a time to separate distant sites, weekly inspections for disease, etc. and then those bees only getting enough honey for their basic winter needs.

Such is life. Until they try to take hold of us I will continue to keep bees as an enjoyable hobby. I enjoy it as long as it doesn't cost me too much.

Regards, RAB

 

[Somerford]

two fair reponses there and can understand the viewpoints expressed in each !

Beekeeping is cheap compared to yachting which is akin to tearing up £50 notes under a cold shower......although considering the prices of some nucs this year, I might be forced to eat my words !

regards

S

 

[victor meldrew]

If the price keeps going up I'll be uniting less and less colonies .

John Wilkinson

 

[Adam]

They are gathering information on bees so as to see how much money No.11 can get. You are warned. Take Heed.
Busy Bee

Sorry to dig an old posting up, especially given the postings thus far. However a rather important point has been missed.

Rather more scarily for the government, than for the individual is that if they asked every beekeeper to pay tax on the income, then beekeepers would be able to charge every business expense that was incurred. Now.... lets be honest, there are a lot more hobbyists than commercial beekeepers so lets just think about the potential expenses...

I run an out-apiary so...

Tax on my car (pro-rata)
Petrol
Car Insurance
Depreciation

Then I also process honey/wax at home so I have

Electric
Fair share of council tax/rates
Use of my house/mortgage


Then I have

Depreciation on the value of the hives
Write off for lost value of bees
New equipment
Gas
Medicines


I also have a bee shed

So depreciation...

Then all my annual costs....

Beecraft
Club membership
Trips to various county shows (educational of course)
Trips to the spring convention.

I can guarantee I could make my business loose a handsome amount each and every year. Given you can offset tax from a profitable business against a loss making one, I'd actually be much better off (like most beekeepers I'd imagine) if I paid tax on some notional sales. I hate the honey so much I gave a mate 35lbs last week provided he gave me the bucket back properly cleaned.

 

[iball]

If you sell any honey then, by law, that income must be delared. it would however then be permissable to claim on outgoings and expenses and for us hobbyist the expenditure would exceed the income resulting in a tax refund.

You missed out books, printer ink/paper, stamps.

I wouldn't want to claim against mortgage interest as this would mean that part of your property would be subject to capital gains when you sold it.

If in doubt seek professional tax advice.

Ian

 

[Adam]

If you sell any honey then, by law, that income must be delared. it would however then be permissable to claim on outgoings and expenses and for us hobbyist the expenditure would exceed the income resulting in a tax refund.

Actually I disagree. See these examples from inland revenue.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/guidance/selling/examples.htm

In example 1, the person occasionally makes a profit, on something that is not their main employment, and any funds raised only just cover costs. (Indeed it wouldn't even cover my costs).

Adam

 

[Brian Bush]

I am still unclear as to the status of bee keepers and selling products. Am I obliged to declare all my income from honey/nuc/queen sales to HMRC. If this is the case then surely I can set all my purchases against it/ Equipment, apiary rental, queen puchase etc etc. Over the last three years I have probably made a paer loss of sevral thousand pound if I include my initial capital expenditure. Surely for most of us this is just a hobby. I was always under the impression that you could make up to £5000 from a hobby before you ahd to declare the income. I am sure HMRC do not want to reimburse tax on losses that we make. My grandfather used to say there are three ways to lose money.
Fast women
Slow horses
Fattening cattle

The first gives the most pleasure
The second is the quickest
The third is the most certain

I think beekeeping could be a substitute for fattening cattle!! Although there is considerable pleasure and watching a swarm disappear into the distance could be considered fast!!

 

[Ando]

Very interesting thread this, with some interesting views.

I just wanted to add that I had an inspection yesterday on my hives and 5 samples of around 60 bees taken from random hives for a DNA test (I believe) to find out if there are any diseases present in any amount, not something I really understand maybe some of the more knowledgeable members will be able to explain this.

I did get the visual all clear apart from a bit of chalk brood on a really old frame that was taken straight out and replaced, only a few cells mind, I had moved it to the outside to try and replace it.

I also got a covering letter telling me that it was a random sample test and that they are going to get 5000 samples over the whole country in the next 2 years to get an idea of the health of the countries bee, I think this is a good idea and don't mind taking part, I've only kept bees for a just over a year and have found it interesting to get someone who does have an idea about bee to have a look and get a second opinion, this is the second time that he has been out, I had an inspection last year.

Our Local Bee Inspector is very good, even offering local newbees a service to come out and teach about bee keeping, in his own time for free, know that to me says a lot about his passion for bee keeping and bee keepers.

As for the Tax issue that has come about in this thread, I find that for the hobbyist beekeeps, it will be more or less impossible to police on honey sales or nuc sales to be honest, my hives have swarmed and that inhibbited my honey collection so how will they prove that they din;t because you did swarm control, sold the Nuc or reunited the bees and got 200lb form the hive instead of 50lb? I think the government have bigger fish to fry, than some bee keepers selling some jars of honey and nucs.

I'm hoping for 150lb of honey this year to help towards the set cost I have incurred, it won't cover it, which I'm not bothered about but it will be nice to get something back.

I sell my honey to family friends and people they know at work or neighbours, can't sell enough of it so far this year, so find it strange how people think they will be able to monitor this? if I was supplying a shop I could understand it, as the shop would need a suppliers invoice.

Cheers

Mark.

 

[Busy Bee]

Hold on you people, yiz are stone THICK....

Road Fund Licence, TV License, Water Rates, Council Tax, Rates.......etc etc

BEE HIVE LEVY or BEE KEEPING APIARY NO. LEVY and the National Bee Unit and the BBKA has all the names, addresses and hives numbers of all registered people.

10 hives at £5 each = £500 plus all the regulation you can adhere to with documentation and health records. Now this would give the power to the government whom could tell you if you where allowed to keep bees or not, same as CATTLE SHEEP and PIGS.

NOW AGAIN YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED FOR THE SECOND TIME.

And don't bother to reply with lines of income and expenditure, levies and licences are much easier to admisister. IF YOU HAVE A HIVE YOU PAY END OFF.

Busy Bee

 

[Nellie]

If I'm thick then you're paranoid.

Why wont they bring in a beekeeping licence fee? For the same reason that they scrapped the dog licence, it's nearly impossible to enforce. How many colonies do you think will survive the winter once they bring in a licence fee per colony? Sorry Gov. they all died this winter.

Why do I need health records for bees that "don't exist"? It's a lot easier to hide a beehive than it is a herd of cows.

Or is B&Q going to have to report anyone buying wood that could be cut into 18inch sections?

 

[iball]

Actually I disagree. See these examples from inland revenue.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/guidance/selling/examples.htm

In example 1, the person occasionally makes a profit, on something that is not their main employment, and any funds raised only just cover costs. (Indeed it wouldn't even cover my costs).

Adam

If in doubt seek professional tax advice. If you think you're right then seek professional advice. HMRC can go back 6 years and it get's messy if you can't prove that £3000 bank deposit was a gift.

Ian

 

[tonybloke]

Hold on you people, yiz are stone THICK....

10 hives at £5 each = £500 .

Busy Bee

erm, who is calling whom thick?