Bee breed specific breeders

[bjosephd]

I'm keen to experience colonies of different bee breeds. Since I enjoy reading about the characteristics of different breeds I'd love to experience this noticeable variation myself.

So I'm in the market for some quality queens.

I know who I'd get my Buckfasts from (actually purchased this season).

I know who I'd (like to) get my Carni's from (next season hopefully).

The more I research, the more breeds there seem to be... however, for starters can anybody point me in some good directions for...

Italian (is next on my list)
Caucasian
AMM (if there really is such a unicorn)
Any others I should try?

I've googled a plenty, but would love to know what people know about various breeders. The best, it seems, are those who work with only one (or very few) breeds.

Or any breeders of non specific breeds, but just quality bred bees.

And for those who think I should just stick to local mongrels... don't worry... I've raised a couple mongrels this season and last, and will no doubt continue. I just don't want to forever be comparing my bees with only my bees.

Hope you've all had a marvellous weekend.

Thanks

BJD

 

[Swarm]

If there really is such a Unicorn could be applied to any you have mentioned.

 

[Beefriendly]

AMM (if there really is such a unicorn)

Can highly recommend Jon Getty from Northern Island for Amm's. I still have one his queens (they estimated 96% pure at DNA level) and they behave exactly like Amm's were described to. The cappings are amazingly white and of show standard. Brood patterns is typical. I won't post his email address on a public forum, but check out the Scottish Beekeepers forum where he posts quite a bit.
There are also breeders in Denmark using Island matings to maintain Amm purity, but I don't currently have any of their details.

Oh and if you come across a good source of Italian queens, please let me know as they and Caucasian are still on my "to do" list.

 

[bjosephd]

If there really is such a Unicorn could be applied to any you have mentioned.

Sorry Swarm, I didn't mean to be facetious re AMMs. It's more that there seems to be more debate about the existence or purity of the AMM black bee than any other breed. I'm keen to have such a colony in my apiary.

 

[colinc]

Sorry Swarm, I didn't mean to be facetious re AMMs. It's more that there seems to be more debate about the existence or purity of the AMM black bee than any other breed. I'm keen to have such a colony in my apiary.

By next year I can probably sort you out with a pure Midlands B*****d mongrel. I will start requeening next year as the old girl is about to turfed out by her colony and her daughters are tending towards being spoilt brats....

 

[Swarm]

Sorry Swarm, I didn't mean to be facetious re AMMs. It's more that there seems to be more debate about the existence or purity of the AMM black bee than any other breed. I'm keen to have such a colony in my apiary.

Apologies from me too, for being too sensitive. Beefriendly has suggested an excellent source for Native Queens. You could also consider closer to home in Cornwall.
That Unicorn does exist and she's a beautiful little thing

 

[bjosephd]

Apologies from me too, for being too sensitive. Beefriendly has suggested an excellent source for Native Queens. You could also consider closer to home in Cornwall.

That Unicorn does exist and she's a beautiful little thing

Yes, it would be good to look relatively local. My Bucky is from Exmoor, which is pretty damn local, same county even!

My original unicorn comment was more to deflect the nay-sayers. It didn't cross my mind that it could go the other way and upset the yay-sayers! Doh!

I am expecting these bees to have a single magical horn though. And not the magical horn that comes out the wrong end and stings like b@st'd!

 

[colinc]

I am expecting these bees to have a single magical horn though!

I expect to hear that they poop rainbows.....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[For want of a better word]

Begs the question.. What is a pure Buckfast bee?
To me this is a hybridised mix with little to do with BA and or Bucfast Abbey where he worked other... than his quest for a better type of bee than God had provided mankind with.
A quest BA realised for a moment with hybrid vigor.... ahd others noticing this jumped on the bandwagon all producing their own special cocktail of Buckfasts!!!...
..... and if you keep that mix of breeds in you apiary and the cross out you will have bees from hell and bees from Eden,,, all at the same time!!

And why are Greek bees not on you extensive list of bees?

Just my half crowns worth!

Nos da

 

[For want of a better word]

I am expecting these bees to have a single magical horn though. And not the magical horn that comes out the wrong end and stings like b@st'd!

Hope the paddle you are stirring with snaps and leaves you up the creek... shame on you to start another line of controversy.... some people are quite passionate about the breed they keeps, coal scuttle helmet bees brigade and the imported cross over designer beasts particular!!

Nos da

 

[Beefriendly]

Begs the question.. What is a pure Buckfast bee?

No such beast.
If I understand it correctly Br Adam produced several hybrid lines collectively known as Buckfast bees. When controlled for mating they breed true. In most beekeepers hands when cross bred with local mongrels they often lose their good nature. But are rarely worse than the local population in terms of temper.
The problem facing a buyer is that most Buckfast offered for sale are open mated (F1's) and there is little quality control. The very same applies for many Carniolans, Italians and Cornish Amm's . It is a case of buyer beware, there is considerable variation in the performance from various suppliers. I know I've used several.
My only advise would be to seek those who don't advertise in glossies, you may find they have a waiting list.....

 

[beebopper]

The problem facing a buyer is that most Buckfast offered for sale are open mated (F1's) and there is little quality control. The very same applies for many Carniolans, Italians and Cornish Amm's ....

How can people advertise their queens as x y or z if they are completely open mated? So misleading.

 

[Beefriendly]

If a "breeder" buys an isolated or Island mated queen then the guarantee is the sperm is the same. Lets say an Italian queen mated with Italian drones...the only queens she can produce are pure Italians, but when her daughters head off on mating flights and screw Tom Dick and Harry...then her offspring are half Italian and half mongrel This is what many breeders sell (open mated). Many things happen at this point, but usually the Italian genes ( or whatever) prevail and the temper is excellent...go beyond that and it's lap of the gods.

 

[Finman]

.
If I were Joseph, I would produce different kind anti varroa bees and sell them. They would act as hive cleaners. £ 300/kg. One hive produces 10 kg bees, it is £ 3000/hive.

But perhaps killing varroa needs a license .

. We need license to shoot moose.

 

[B+.]

I have had many island mated queens over the years. These are open mated. However, the island is usually so far off the coast that there is no possibility of a drone making it that far from the mainland. So, the identity of the mating station carries a certain amount of credibility. They have been proven time and time again to be truly isolated. Land-based mating stations just don't have the same credibility because they are never truly isolated.
I also use instrumentally inseminated queens. These are the real "Gold standard" as far as certainty is concerned, but, there may be a price tag to match.
No matter how pure the pedigree, all of my queens still go through the same testing regime and I only breed from the very best. This is where I differentiate between the inseminated queens and those which I open mate (i.e. the degree of control exerted over the mating process). In this country, there is no control over where a beekeeper puts his hives so, no matter how hard you try, you just can't get any certainty over what a virgin mates with. That's why I say: the queen and her drones will remain pure, but, her workers will not. However, that is not to say that open mated queens are worthless. They still produce pure drones which can be useful in disseminating above average characteristics. The workers may be good, bad, or indifferent because half of their genes come from the drones the queen mated with. They are usually good honey producers, but, the real value of these queens IMHO is the drones.

 

[beebopper]

Yes I understand but I don't think people should be allowed to sell queens as say buckfast when all it really means is the breeder queen is a 'pure' buckfast mated with whatever.

 

[B+.]

Yes I understand but I don't think people should be allowed to sell queens as say buckfast when all it really means is the breeder queen is a 'pure' buckfast mated with whatever.

What else are they going to call it? It's only a marketing term anyway. There is no such thing as a pure "Buckfast" because it is a synthetic strain made from many different races. It's like saying "tartan paint". There is no such thing.

 

[Brian Bush]

What else are they going to call it? It's only a marketing term anyway. There is no such thing as a pure "Buckfast" because it is a synthetic strain made from many different races. It's like saying "tartan paint". There is no such thing.

 

[Beefriendly]

Yes I understand but I don't think people should be allowed to sell queens as say buckfast when all it really means is the breeder queen is a 'pure' buckfast mated with whatever.

The breeder queen is Buckfast inseminated with Buckfast sperm, so her duaghter queens can only be Buckfast. So the breeder is selling you a "pure" Buckfast queen...The term they uses is open mated.
Like any purchase of livestock there is considerable variation between breeders as to the quality of their queens, which unfortunately (or fortunately) can only be found out after purchase.

 

[B+.]

The breeder queen is Buckfast inseminated with Buckfast sperm, so her duaghter queens can only be Buckfast. So the breeder is selling you a "pure" Buckfast queen...The term they uses is open mated.

OK. I think I understand what you're saying now.
IF Buckfast was a pure race the daughter would be pure and her drones would too. The workers would not. However, as we have already said, Buckfast is merely a marketing term for a composite like HP Beans (i.e. not one type of bean).