Bee breed specific breeders

[foghornleghorn]

When I used Buckfast bees from Br Adam/Peter Donnovan, I never got a pedigree, so, I don't think that is necessarily a problem (unless you intend to breed from them).
Things have moved on a lot from Br Adams day though.
In terms of credibility, I would say: "recognised by who?" If there is a governing body, the group should confirm the breeder as a member, and, the breeder should follow the guidelines of the group. If either of these doesn't apply, they are probably not kosher.

There does seem to be an awful lot of smoke and mirrors around buckfast breeding. Don't see why they can't have the openness with links to performance records like the carnicas have

 

[Beefriendly]

There does seem to be an awful lot of smoke and mirrors around buckfast breeding. Don't see why they can't have the openness with links to performance records like the carnicas have

Their is little smoke and mirrors with respectable Buckfast breeders, their crosses are all publicly listed
Click on any country to find any breeders to see what lines they are using and crossing. Understanding what the lines are may take you a little longer to understand.
Many list performance values for the crosses at the bottom of the page.
It's the open mated F1's where the drone parentage is unknown; these are also the most affordable Buckfast that most people purchase. Most quibble at paying over a £100 for a queen with a full lineage, rather than £30 or so for her daughters.

Foghonrnlegetc, could you point me in the direction for these Carnica breeding records, please. I'm interested in trying some quality Carnica queens, the ones I've tried to date have, shall we say, not performed as advertised and some queens produced aggressive colonies. This I think reflects more on their source than their real ability.

 

[beebopper]

Their is little smoke and mirrors with respectable Buckfast breeders, their crosses are all publicly listed
Click on any country to find any breeders to see what lines they are using and crossing. Understanding what the lines are may take you a little longer to understand.
Many list performance values for the crosses at the bottom of the page.
It's the open mated F1's where the drone parentage is unknown; these are also the most affordable Buckfast that most people purchase. Most quibble at paying over a £100 for a queen with a full lineage, rather than £30 or so for her daughters.

Foghonrnlegetc, could you point me in the direction for these Carnica breeding records, please. I'm interested in trying some quality Carnica queens, the ones I've tried to date have, shall we say, not performed as advertised and some queens produced aggressive colonies. This I think reflects more on their source than their real ability.

Why are there no UK in the site that you linked?

 

[Beefriendly]

Why are there no UK in the site that you linked?

Ask HM, I only provided the link.

 

[Millet]

HM will not post abroad as far as i am aware that could be why he is not on that list..

 

[beebopper]

HM will not post abroad as far as i am aware that could be why he is not on that list..

Are there any others in the uk?

 

[wightbees]

BB group and there's face book but that's all I know

 

[Beefriendly]

Are there any others in the uk?

As far as I'm aware only HM has access to a isolated mating site in the UK to ensure the accuracy of the crosses ( He uses what was Brother Adams original isolated mating station). Not sure why his crosses don't appear on the UK list now, they used to a few years back. Perhaps best to let him explain rather than us guessing.

 

[beebreeder]

try looking here http://perso.fundp.ac.be/~jvandyck/homage/elver/

 

[B+.]

As far as I'm aware only HM has access to a isolated mating site in the UK to ensure the accuracy of the crosses ( He uses what was Brother Adams original isolated mating station). Not sure why his crosses don't appear on the UK list now, they used to a few years back. Perhaps best to let him explain rather than us guessing.

How isolated do you think it is? Personally, I doubt that any land based mating site can be isolated. People move their bees around all of the time.

 

[Beefriendly]

Really B+. You would need to explain why there are so many registered land based isolated sites in Germany/Austria etc. Usually isolated mountain valleys with no other bees around.

 

[B+.]

Really B+. You would need to explain why there are so many registered land based isolated sites in Germany/Austria etc. Usually isolated mountain valleys with no other bees around.

Thats easy. They control what bees you can have where (i.e. you have to apply for a licence). We don't. You can put bees anywhere you want in this country so long as you have the landowners permission. That's why I say the only safe way to breed bees in this country is using II.
I used to buy A.m.c mated at Torfhaus (in the Harz mountains) but changed to all island mated queens because there was local interference creeping in. These are fine as production queens (and most people would be perfectly happy with them), but, they're not safe enough for my needs

 

[MartinL]

.
Buckfast is not a F1 hybrid.

Didn't say it was!

Just drew the analogy.

You buy your "Buckfast" Queen.

When she's "used up", you'll need to buy another because you can't produce the identical replacement yourself .

However, if you try;

• The majority will certainly be different.

• A substantial number should be expected to be, , , "Defensive".

 

[Finman]

Didn't say it was!

Just drew the analogy.

You buy your "Buckfast" Queen.

When she's "used up", you'll need to buy another because you can't produce the identical replacement yourself .

However, if you try;

• The majority will certainly be different.

• A substantial number should be expected to be, , , "Defensive".

I have had now 2 years buckfast queens. I have no experience about hybrids.

I mated this summer 10 italian queens with buckfast drones. I will see, how it goes.

Thanks for warning.
.

 

[bjosephd]

I have had now 2 years buckfast queens. I have no experience about hybrids.



I mated this summer 10 italian queens with buckfast drones. I will see, how it goes.



Thanks for warning.

.

Do you use mainly Italian queen headed colonies Finny?

 

[Finman]

Do you use mainly Italian queen headed colonies Finny?

Yes, I do. I have tried buckfasts every now and then along decades, but did not find any special in then. But this year buckfasts have worked well.


About those F2 defensive buckfast hydrids. My professional friend said that all bees become angry in F2 if they mate with village mongrells. And that is true. They have only 1/4 out of original genes. IT depends on are those surrounding bee stocks, what happens.

 

[madasafish]

Didn't say it was!

Just drew the analogy.

You buy your "Buckfast" Queen.

When she's "used up", you'll need to buy another because you can't produce the identical replacement yourself .

However, if you try;

• The majority will certainly be different.

• A substantial number should be expected to be, , , "Defensive".

Yes, I've read that stuff about Buckfast offspring being "defensive".

Based on my experience of queen rearing from Buckfast queens (not breeders) it's another piece of beekeeping lore (ie. Bull excrement)

 

[Finman]

Yes, I've read that stuff about Buckfast offspring being "defensive".:

Yeah. Those second hand stories.

 

[B+.]

Yes, I've read that stuff about Buckfast offspring being "defensive".

I have to disagree.
The workers will only ever be 50% related to the queen so, even in the first generation, 50% of their behavior will be influenced by the drones which the queen mates with. This is true of all open mated queens.
My experience, using queens supplied by Br. Adam, Peter Donnovan and Buckfast Friedrichskoog was that the progeny of open mated daughters in my area were vicious! I wouldn't give them room in my apiary!

 

[Finman]

.
Next summer almost all my apiary 20 hives will be sisters, and drones brothers, because I took queens from same apiary. Inbreeding may happen so quickly. ... If I do not take care about that thing.