Sales irritations

[user 21786]

Please forgive me in advance if I offend anyone it's not my intention , I'm just sharing my experience.
So I'm currently stocking up ready for the next season and I don't know about you lot but I'm all up for a bargain.
Considering the bargain thing being the main motivation for my actions I decided to ring company's directly that where within a reasonable driving distance to my home to reduce postage costs and maybe grab a face to face human approach to a bargain or two.
Absolutely failed on all parts.
There are 3 Ltd companies close to my home most of which aren't very established just yet but they are getting there , so I approach the owner and explain I'm on tbe hunt for some bargains and all 3 store owners just pretty much talked to me as if I needed or asked for advise.
Didn't ask btw just wanted wax or frames or supers but didn't even get to asking just was told literally how to beekeep .... not considering if I'd been doing it for decades ... very irritating.... please stop trying to be the only beekeepers on the planet and treating others as if they didn't know anything at all.... don't need lectures on breeding queen's don't need information on splits I just need some damn wax

 

[Wilco]

Please forgive me in advance if I offend anyone it's not my intention , I'm just sharing my experience.
So I'm currently stocking up ready for the next season and I don't know about you lot but I'm all up for a bargain.
Considering the bargain thing being the main motivation for my actions I decided to ring company's directly that where within a reasonable driving distance to my home to reduce postage costs and maybe grab a face to face human approach to a bargain or two.
Absolutely failed on all parts.
There are 3 Ltd companies close to my home most of which aren't very established just yet but they are getting there , so I approach the owner and explain I'm on tbe hunt for some bargains and all 3 store owners just pretty much talked to me as if I needed or asked for advise.
Didn't ask btw just wanted wax or frames or supers but didn't even get to asking just was told literally how to beekeep .... not considering if I'd been doing it for decades ... very irritating.... please stop trying to be the only beekeepers on the planet and treating others as if they didn't know anything at all.... don't need lectures on breeding queen's don't need information on splits I just need some damn wax

Perhaps because we beekeepers are enthusiastic and get carried away talking about our hobby and perhaps it was them politely diverting away from you asking for discounts.

Your post reads as you approaching companies out of the blue, asking for a discount (basically a stranger asking them to give up some of their income) then grumbling online when you didn't get it. I imagine that's not the sort of customer most businesses want. They saw through you but still gave you some of their time and talked about something they love. Those who are starting up are also less likely to have spare cash to do discounts. Companies are more likely to do discounts for regular, long term, clients where there's a trust relationship but even then they don't owe you anything, it would be an act of kindness on their part. Work on building that relationship.

If you're after a bargain, as wax isn't usually in sales, buy a large enough amount from Maisemore that you get the discount if they still do it- best ring them to ask if they still do it though as a quick look on their website doesn't seem to mention it. There are frames and supers on sale from them and Thorne at the moment anyway so buy those or wait for auction season or an exhibition.

 

[user 21786]

Don't agree with anything you've said in the first paragraph.
If I had to guess I'd say you was probably one of those companies ... certainly talk like they do

 

[Newbeeneil]

Don't agree with anything you've said in the first paragraph.
If I had to guess I'd say you was probably one of those companies ... certainly talk like they do

I agree with Wilco so maybe we are all those small start up companies?

 

[pargyle]

Don't agree with anything you've said in the first paragraph.
If I had to guess I'd say you was probably one of those companies ... certainly talk like they do

No he's not .. and I think there may be a few who agree with what he said .. wind it in a bit please.

 

[user 21786]

No he's not .. and I think there may be a few who agree with what he said .. wind it in a bit please.

One is entitled to opinion as is the other.
Those who don't like to listen to opinion try to quite Those who have one.
Typical really

 

[Newbeeneil]

It seems to me Redhat that your original post was asking others to confirm that those companies were being unreasonable in not offering you a discount and just chatting to you about beekeeping.
This begs a question - did you ask for a discount? And if so what was their reaction?

 

[fian]

Your attitude is not new and I have seen it many times, basically you want sellers to accept the price that suits you and I honestly don't see the reason why they should. What's more, I wasn't even willing to make a complete order.
I am going to explain to you why Wilco is right that this type of customer is not suitable (seller's point of view).
1. They are not long-term customers, if there are discounts in other companies they will leave you to your own devices.
2. They will be the first to complain about a defect even though they have received a discount, even for a product that the salesperson has not sold.
3. You will never get a good referral even though the service and product have been excellent.
Finally, I want to link this with what was commented in another post, that of the reference value. Although I do not know this colleague, it is likely that he is a user of this form of purchase, he was simply probing the seller through the "discount".

 

[jeff33]

Sounds like those passing customers knocking on my door and asking for a bulk discount when buying 5 jars to which I reply, buy another 45 on a monthly basis and you will get a discount.

At the end of the day businesses are not charities, they're struggling at the moment with another well established beekeeping supplier closing down again. If those you have approached are not yet established they probably struggle even more and may still be investing more than what they earn. They also can't buy/ make the quantity of equipment that other well known companies can and therefore don't get the same prices or 2nd quality if they make their own.

 

[rolande]

This begs a question - did you ask for a discount? And if so what was their reaction?

I remember a few years back, enquiring of a lady at a long standing UK bee business about the possibility of any, however small, discount on 30 complete modified dadant hives (a discount could have even taken the form of throwing in some second quality parts). She seemed to be willing to consider such a thing as a possibility however the response from the boss, heard over the phone was a straightforward 'no' ; end of conversation, not even a lesson in making nucs. I now feel really hard done by.

 

[jeff33]

I remember a few years back, enquiring of a lady at a long standing UK bee business about the possibility of any, however small, discount on 30 complete modified dadant hives (a discount could have even taken the form of throwing in some second quality parts). She seemed to be willing to consider such a thing as a possibility however the response from the boss, heard over the phone was a straightforward 'no' ; end of conversation, not even a lesson in making nucs. I now feel really hard done by.

And I thought 30 full hives would have been a good number to ask for some sort of discount.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Don't agree with anything you've said in the first paragraph.
If I had to guess I'd say you was probably one of those companies ... certainly talk like they do

My experience is certainly what Will suggests. I bought my first queen from Pete Little. I phoned him at 11pm on his instructions and finally managed to get off the phone at 12.30!
I subsequently dealt with Sandra via email if I was short of time.
Asking small companies for a discount is a little unreasonable don't you think?

 

[Anduril]

I just need some damn wax

I agree with Wilco, small concerns would not be able to give a discount on sheets of foundation, even the big companies don't offer a discount on their foundation during their sales.

 

[Blunt Spike]

I dont think asking is unreasonable if it is a polite question, but not accepting their negative reply is. Surely if you're experienced you would know to wait for the sales or attend one of the shows/ trade events.

The only saving grace in my eyes for this post is the fact the OP hasn't named the companies in an attempt to shame them.

 

[Newbeeneil]

My experience of owning a small business was always that I would price the work at the price I wanted for the job and bearing in mind the chance of losing it. If someone came back to me to negotiate my reaction was to say that I always offer my best price and if they wanted to negotiate let me increase my price before we started. I did lose some jobs especially with large contractors whose QS's used to beat small companies into submission and often bankruptcy but I think quality and honesty is generally appriciated.
As others have said negotiation is best done with friends and it takes time to build a friendly relationship.

 

[Ian123]

If you’re about to spend a reasonable amount I don’t think there’s any harm in asking, however a reasonable amount is often down to perception. Then there’s the suppliers perfectly acceptable stance of saying NO!!…….
You then have the perfectly reasonable position of shopping around and indeed even going back.
So you asked they said no and had a chat…… what’s the issue

 

[pargyle]

This is actually a good thread, even though it started out in a sightlly controversial manner. There are some lessons here - particularly for new beekeepers:

1. Plan your seasons requirements well in advance and take advantage of the deals available when the sales and shows come along (and they do - every year).
2. Loyalty goes a long way - suppliers appreciate regular customers and if you get to know them and talk to them then you have the sort of relationship any business prefers - it's much easier to hang on to an existing, loyal customer than go out and find a new one.
3. Sign up to beekeeping supplies email news letters - they often do flash sales on isolated products at discounted prices and take advantage when they come along.
5. Shop around for major purchases and find the best price before you decide to purchase - if it's something you can buy from your usual supplier, demonstrate the other prices you have found and very often they will price match rather than lose the sale.
5. It's harder to get a deal when you are in peak season and desperately need something that your supplier will know that you are desperate for ... if you've got yourself in that position - pay up and smile.
6. Be understanding - businesses need to make a profit to stay in business. It's been a hard time for all small businesses over the last couple of years and beekeeping supplies is a competitive business. Competition is good but if it gets too hard we will lose some of the suppliers that provide the competition and we will have less choice and inevitably higher prices.
7. Try and put some of the profits from your honey sales away for the days when you come across a bargain - it's a lot less painful shelling out money you have in a jar than it is to dip into the family bank account and then have to justify to your significant other why you have just coughed up £200 to Simonthebeekeeper for some real bargains that will never be repeated ! All you have to do then is explain the delivery of large cardboard boxes when they arrive ...

 

[madasafish]

Being old and having at one time run a Purchasing Department buying several £ millions a year, I would say that ringing up out of the blue, unknown and immediately asking for bargains is the approach most guaranteed to set things off on a bad footing.

You need to be known to a supplier before they will offer you their best prices. For all they know - and remember they know nothing of you - you might be competitor trying to screw them on pricing. Or a time waster. Or one of these people who orders things, - wrongly - and then wants returns etc.. In other words a real PIA.

Retail customers usually view prices on the internet - and sales are usually advertised in advance either on the website, FB or by emailing customers on mailing lists. Smaller suppliers may not have a dedicated telephone sales but rely on the internet.

 

[Ian123]

I have a little sympathy with suppliers and indeed what they have to put up with or people they deal with.
I was in a well known suppliers southern shop once and the phone rang. Having been in mid conversation with the manager I waited, he started pulling funny faces at me! The person on the phone was complaining their queen had died on introducing. The full scale of the issue became obvious when the manager repeated the complaint trying to understand the issue……..”So you took the tab of the cage off and slid between the frames of foundation” he asked and then paused as we both looked at each other!..I started laughing and he asked the obvious question, …..”weren’t there any other bees in the hive”…….they’d introduced a caged queen to an empty hive, it still makes me laugh! And not the first time it’s happened.

 

[rolande]

In my case, I'll never forget the surprised tone in the woman's voice when she received the straightforward 'no', in fact, the boss didn't even enquire whether the random bloke on the phone was the guy that had made a £27k order 5 years earlier as well as several other decent purchases at other times.

The lesson I drew from it was that I needed to purchase a small table saw pretty quickly. A decision that I've never had reason to regret.