Asian Hornet APP

[Erichalfbee]

I wonder how many catch traps, among the thousands that will be eagerly deployed will actually catch a queen Velutina? I also wonder how many other insects they will catch while waiting empty of an Asian.
Queen trapping where the insect is not established seems crackers to me.

 

[roche]

I wonder how many catch traps, among the thousands that will be eagerly deployed will actually catch a queen Velutina? I also wonder how many other insects they will catch while waiting empty of an Asian.
Queen trapping where the insect is not established seems crackers to me.

It damages the native population of competitors, and flies in the face of scientifically based arguments.
Just because a majority "think" trapping is the right thing to do does not make it so.

 

[rdartington]

I wonder how many catch traps, among the thousands that will be eagerly deployed will actually catch a queen Velutina? I also wonder how many other insects they will catch while waiting empty of an Asian.
Queen trapping where the insect is not established seems crackers to me.

I am still struggling to understand the objection to trapping.
If …. I do say if …a trap is properly designed, the entrance will just admit AH queen but NOT European hornet queen , or even worker, which is bigger. Smaller by-catch, eg wasps, will escape thru roof holes too small for AH to escape. Attractant will be mopped up in j-cloth, so none drowns.
If trap is left out Feb to Mid June , any AH Q trapped will be one whole nest less. All by-catch will escape.
Where is the problem - other than poor design as yet of commercial traps?

 

[Parsonage Bees]

Had a talk by a member of Jersey AH team at my BBKA association meeting. (Think he was lost in the wilds of Lincolnshire. )
He has 6? 10? traps which he checks daily on his rounds. It means he can monitor a bigger area.
If you are using bait stations a hornet could come and go before or after you check it. I had a bait station out on the wall outside my front door last October when the NBU asked for monitoring until the end of October 2023. Fine if you're just monitoring your patch.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Where is the problem - other than poor design as yet of commercial traps?

The problem is the one you highlighted. No trap excludes other insects.

 

[Karol]

I am still struggling to understand the objection to trapping.

That's very clear.

If …. I do say if …a trap is properly designed, the entrance will just admit AH queen but NOT European hornet queen , or even worker, which is bigger. Smaller by-catch, eg wasps, will escape thru roof holes too small for AH to escape.

For context. I have a globally patented wasp trap and have been teaching pest controllers integrated wasp management as part of their formal cpd for 20 years. Back in 2015/2016 I had the opportunity of extending my business by taking advantage of velutina in France and Portugal which would have been the easiest thing to do. I didn't because my work and research showed that trapping in spring simply made the situation worse not better. Mazamazzda attested to that very same fact. Dogma is no substitute for science and experience. Spring trapping regardless of trap design will kill beneficial competing vespines at the peril of helping velutina become established.

Attractant will be mopped up in j-cloth, so none drowns.
If trap is left out Feb to Mid June , any AH Q trapped will be one whole nest less. All by-catch will escape.
Where is the problem - other than poor design as yet of commercial traps?

You really have no idea.

 

[Karol]

Because the NBU approach has NOT eliminated velutina. 20+ nests eliminated in 2022, 72 nests in following year 2023, ie 3 times as many.

These are outbreaks caused by transit of impregnated queens from France either hitching lifts on human transit routes or blown across on strong spring winds. There is no proof as yet that the increase from 20 to 72 was due to surviving overwintering queens.

Andrew Durham’ three ‘Special Briefings’ on hornets in France are available on utube. AH arrived as one Q in 2004. Has now covered all France and is invading Germany, Spain and Belgium.

France being the operative territory. Very different situation to what we have in the UK.

One of Andrews slides records growth of hornet nests culled in one department (equal to a UK county) in north west. 2011, just 4. Next year 63. Then 235, 1,150, 3,500 to 5,000in 2016. Action stepped up in 2017 - 68,000 Q caught, nests reduced to 3,089. Reduced to only 2,064 in 2021 but back to 5,031 in 2022.

Precisely. Trapping does not work! Isn't that evidence enough ?

UK progress from 20+ to 72 last year may mean nil this year is all nest ere found - or 3 times again, ie 200, on route to thousands. We will have to wait and see.

A sensible suggestion. Wait and see.

Andrew’s Briefings are fascinating. In France, the majority of found nests are in towns - but maybe because rural areas are litlle populated. Hornets like the wamth in towns - and nest low down. If approached within 5 m , they will attack - advice is to cover your face with your hands and run. But obviouly, part your fingers to see where you are going. Stings to the eyes do not cause permanent blindness. Great stuff! Two nests last year were within London. If one further nest was undiscovered , how many nests this year? Anyone gets seriously stung, the papers will report . Then the public will wake up.

Nothing like whipping up some alarmism.

I am not critical of what NBU are doing

Yes you are.

but they are clearly civil servants following a safety first routine, not striving to succeed in a competitive open market.

You mean not selling harmful destructive tat?

They get paid whatever. Bee suppliers are marketeers, and so are seising the opportunity to present badly designed expensive rubbish to innocent untrained beekeepers. Badly designed traps cost £7 or £20 - a drinks bottle can be converted to a better trap once you have drunk the fruit juice inside.

with a statement such as that I doubt you could discern an efficient trap from a non efficient trap.

One plastic box fitted with two funnel entrances is being sold by Thorne’s for £80 - a wooden one could be made at home for under £3.

This whole process of tracking down a nest and then injecting insecticide is very labour intensive and so expensive and requires specialised training not available to beekeepers countrywide.

It doesn't have to be. We don't have a country wide problem.

To me the obvious way to get insecticide inside is to get hornets to carry it there - they know where the nest is, we do not need to know. There are risks to be identified and the procedure improved, yes. We need to know how hornets feed their grubs, starting from eggs. Do we know?- noone has spoken up. We only learned about bees when Huber designed a leaf observation hive and put his servant to watch it. Has anyone made a hornet observation nest? If not, why not?

Yes we know how they feed.

I will not reply to the rest of your objections. Negativity is not a way forward. Nor is feedings Q’s with carbohydrate in bait stations, rather than trapping. Happy well fed Q’s will make lovely big nests early on. In FRance, 64% agree with trapping - reduces nests by 50%.

Which contradicts what you said about nests jumping from 2000 in 2021 to 5000 in 2022?

No one is being negative. Taking a careful judicious targetted approach is not doing nothing!

 

[OldFarm]

Has anyone made a hornet observation nest? If not, why not?

Chris Issacs in Jersey has a hornet observation hive in his conservatory. Chris is quiet about his discoveries, but John De Carteret shares the information.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yes fascinating. I spotted that on their FB page a couple of days ago

 

[OldFarm]

I am still struggling to understand the objection to trapping.
If …. I do say if …a trap is properly designed, the entrance will just admit AH queen but NOT European hornet queen , or even worker, which is bigger. Smaller by-catch, eg wasps, will escape thru roof holes too small for AH to escape. Attractant will be mopped up in j-cloth, so none drowns.
If trap is left out Feb to Mid June , any AH Q trapped will be one whole nest less. All by-catch will escape.
Where is the problem - other than poor design as yet of commercial traps?

Because it simply isn't possible to design a trap that is specific to Asian Hornets, other insects will always find a way in, some will find a way out, but not all. The sizes stated for the insects are averages, there will always be bigger or smaller - in Jersey they found one AH nest where all the inhabitants were unusually small. There will always be casualties, some traps will perform better than others, but none will only catch AHs. Odds of catching AHs only can be improved if you trap before European hornets are out and about, but improved, not absolute.

 

[North End Bees]

We need to know how hornets feed their grubs, starting from eggs. Do we know?- noone has spoken up. We only learned about bees when Huber designed a leaf observation hive and put his servant to watch it. Has anyone made a hornet observation nest? If not, why not?

There's a huge amount of information out there about hornets' feeding cycles. Observation of actual nests by multiple researchers going back years. I don't know how you haven't come across any.

In this video from prof Steve Martin for example, he talks about larval feeding at about 46 mins in

 

[pargyle]

Thanks for this clarification.
As I now understand, for rechecking before I pass on to my association members:
Nest detection by NBU and total killing by injection of an insecticide wand is best as ensures total destruction.
But detection takes time and NBU has only a limited number of inspectors (?).
The number of nests requiring detection in 2024 is unknown(?). If all nests were detected in 2023, then nil until more queens blow in from France or are ferried in. Nests increased from 20+ to 70+ from 2022 to 2023 - threefold - if that rate of increase continues then expect about 200 nests this year, about 600 in 2025. We just dont know, do we?
According to study below, Undetected nests will send hawkers to apiaries in late summer - and could apparently be controlled by sealing hives up (losing main honey crop) and putting out protein bait dosed with fipronil. Poisoned bait will kill flyers and open brood, not eggs or sealed brood, so results in drop of flyers for 2 weeks, giving bee colonies a respite. As said earlier, I would feel fipronil should be administered only by trained members of local associations, not individually and in ‘custard ‘ form so that it is short lived. If that is right, then surely training needs to start now, not when hawkers appear in July?
This scientific study has examined how fipronil works. Too difficult for un-scientific me to take in. Suggests use of fipronil should be controlled by local authorities. Comments, anyone?

Hi Robin,

You've had some seriously good advice in this thread .. be careful what you say to your members - there is a current plan to deal with AH and whilst it may be underfunded, understaffed and perhaps not perfect it is a plan that most people are following. I'm very much in the front line down here on the South Coast and it has been stressed to us that making people AH aware (Not just beekeepers) is perhaps the most critical part of the plan .. being able to identify the AH and locate the area where the incursion has occurred will lead to a chain of events which, within the present scale of the nests and distribution is adequate. Changes to the plan and contradicting advice being distributed will be counter productive.

I would commend your desire to make your members more AH aware but stick to what the NBU are saying for the time being .. indentification and location is imperative. Once this has ocurred there will be plenty of help and advice for the next stage. In time I suspect that there will be more proactive things asked of us beekeepers but one step at a time.

 

[Erichalfbee]

THREAD STICKIED
There's some really good info here

 

[Erichalfbee]

PS
I've taken out a lot of the chit chat....a lot mine... so apologies if your post doesn't appear here