Asian Hornets...

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Climate is not the same as weather.
Climate is the average weather of 30 years, while the other is a specific fact. It is not simply wrong that the specific perception of a non-coincident atmospheric phenomenon in two places does not mean that the accumulated average is


.

so in other words your imaginary figures aren't worth a tuppenny toss

 

[fian]

so in other words your imaginary figures aren't worth a tuppenny toss

The data and information are available, everyone is free and responsible to take them as they wish, but VV will not disappear without measures.
If the problem is imports, as Karol points out, shouldn't measures be taken in that regard?

 

[JohnRB]

what's that got to do with the price of coal?

I was responding to Karol's post where he said you don't need to worry if you are not in the south and you don't have Crabro. I meet both criteria.

 

[Karol]

But I do live in the south and we do have crabro. Hence my question.

In which case this is what I would respectfully advise:

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/at-what-point-will-the-nbu-give-up-on-ahs.56610/post-899516

If you detect velutina, ask the NBU what they would like you to do.

 

[Karol]

The data and information are available, everyone is free and responsible to take them as they wish, but VV will not disappear without measures.
If the problem is imports, as Karol points out, shouldn't measures be taken in that regard?

The problem will always be 'imports' so action will always be required. The question is what action? The answer is not indiscriminate spring trapping just as it is not to panic. Your posts are unhelpful because you project your experiences from a completely different meteorological, topographical and ecological location onto the UK in a manner designed to incite panic. The UK is collectively taking measures but those measures are being corrupted by ill informed lay actors. You have been informed of the best strategy to eradicate velutina in your location based on real experience. You are perfectly within your rights to continue to utilise alternative failed strategies. Just don't promote those to the UK.

 

[fian]

The problem will always be 'imports' so action will always be required. The question is what action? The answer is not indiscriminate spring trapping just as it is not to panic. Your posts are unhelpful because you project your experiences from a completely different meteorological, topographical and ecological location onto the UK in a manner designed to incite panic. The UK is collectively taking measures but those measures are being corrupted by ill informed lay actors. You have been informed of the best strategy to eradicate velutina in your location based on real experience. You are perfectly within your rights to continue to utilise alternative failed strategies. Just don't promote those to the UK.

The panic is created by misinformation, and is partly the fault of the British media and authorities.
Where is the complete free consultation document of the nests captured from 2019 to 2023 included, with its conclusions?
Where is the guide for beekeepers and third parties, beyond reporting if you see a VV and waiting for the NBU to decide? Furthermore, from the comments of several users it seems that local beekeeper groups are going at their own pace and without a national plan.

 

[Karol]

The panic is created by misinformation, and is partly the fault of the British media and authorities.
Where is the complete free consultation document of the nests captured from 2019 to 2023 included, with its conclusions?
Where is the guide for beekeepers and third parties, beyond reporting if you see a VV and waiting for the NBU to decide? Furthermore, from the comments of several users it seems that local beekeeper groups are going at their own pace and without a national plan.

Monitoring and reporting to the NBU IS the national plan. Stop trolling.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The panic is created by misinformation,

and you are the worst culprit for spreading this

 

[fian]

Monitoring and reporting to the NBU IS the national plan. Stop trolling.

That was also the plan of France, Spain and others before the groups dedicated to removing nests collapsed due to the high incidence, remember that all European velutines come from a single mother who arrived in Bordeaux in 2004. The French national plan collapsed in 2012.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

That was also the plan of France, Spain

the difference being - that was after velutina was well established as everyone (beekeepers and government agencies alike) ignored the issue until it was too late.
Disinformation again.
The difference here is we had set up contingency plans well before the first sighting so are in a position to tackle the issue correctly. not as a delayed kneejerk

 

[Karol]

That was also the plan of France, Spain and others before the groups dedicated to removing nests collapsed due to the high incidence, remember that all European velutines come from a single mother who arrived in Bordeaux in 2004. The French national plan collapsed in 2012.

And still these countries refuse to entertain effective eradication measures. Why? Because of vested commercial interests.

 

[fian]

the difference being - that was after velutina was well established as everyone (beekeepers and government agencies alike) ignored the issue until it was too late.
Disinformation again.
The difference here is we had set up contingency plans well before the first sighting so are in a position to tackle the issue correctly. not as a delayed kneejerk

https://www.persee.fr/doc/bsef_0037-928x_2006_num_111_4_16372
Entomology Bulletin 2006.
The INPN had been keeping track of sightings since 2004.
The nest located in Lot-Garone in 2005 was eradicated. Sightings in winter of that year and capture of vv queens in spring of 2006.
On the INPN page you have a lot of data, even so I do not expect (since I am not delusional) that you will change your attitude/opinion, but at least I have made it clear that the data is for those who want to get closer to reality.

 

[Karol]

https://www.persee.fr/doc/bsef_0037-928x_2006_num_111_4_16372
Entomology Bulletin 2006.
The INPN had been keeping track of sightings since 2004.
The nest located in Lot-Garone in 2005 was eradicated. Sightings in winter of that year and capture of vv queens in spring of 2006.
On the INPN page you have a lot of data, even so I do not expect (since I am not delusional) that you will change your attitude/opinion, but at least I have made it clear that the data is for those who want to get closer to reality.

And your panacea is what precisely?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

And your panacea is what precisely?

chuck loafs of links and spurious collection of data, talk rubbish, repeat ad infinitum

 

[fian]

And your panacea is what precisely?

There are many actions and investigations to carry out.
Actions:
-In each county there must be a nest removal team and additionally 1 more for every 20 nests removed the previous year.
-Beekeepers will monitor and/or capture queens in spring in the vicinity of established apiaries or nests from previous years. If there has been no previous incident, they will carry out informative activities at local fairs and events.
-Reductions will be implemented in beekeeping insurance against losses due to VV, in addition to carrying out allergy tests against vespa stings.
Investigation:
-Specific attractants with VV pheromones.
-Falconry programs with bee-eaters in captivity to promote the ecological elimination of nests.
Enough or do you need more.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Falconry programs with bee-eaters in captivity

eh?!!!
you going to retrain honey buzzards or what?

 

[Karol]

There are many actions and investigations to carry out.
Actions:
-In each county there must be a nest removal team and additionally 1 more for every 20 nests removed the previous year.
-Beekeepers will monitor and/or capture queens in spring in the vicinity of established apiaries or nests from previous years. If there has been no previous incident, they will carry out informative activities at local fairs and events.
-Reductions will be implemented in beekeeping insurance against losses due to VV, in addition to carrying out allergy tests against vespa stings.
Investigation:
-Specific attractants with VV pheromones.
-Falconry programs with bee-eaters in captivity to promote the ecological elimination of nests.
Enough or do you need more.

So you're using bee-eaters against hornets in Spain?

How's that working for you?

I always thought that the European bee-eater was partial to honey bees. Hey ho!

Despite our apparently similar climate the UK doesn't have bee-eaters. Sparrows and tits but no bee-eaters. Tits are pretty useless when it comes to velutina. Any other bright ideas in your catalogue of panaceas?

 

[simonwig]

The NBU have now issued a guide to monitoring. It mentions both trapping and bait stations, and doesn't, as they did in the recent presentation, give advice on only trapping in the designated high risk areas.

Available here https://www.nationalbeeunit.com/resources-for-beekeepers/leaflets-guides-and-videos/fact-sheets/

Simon

 

[fian]

So you're using bee-eaters against hornets in Spain?

How's that working for you?

I always thought that the European bee-eater was partial to honey bees. Hey ho!

Despite our apparently similar climate the UK doesn't have bee-eaters. Sparrows and tits but no bee-eaters. Tits are pretty useless when it comes to velutina. Any other bright ideas in your catalogue of panaceas?

https://www.farodevigo.es/sociedad/2019/03/31/abejero-liquido-24-500-nidos-15733121.html
That's why it's research, but without a doubt it's best to deny the possibility. It is true that the Galicia does not need to be "trained" but taking into account that it is not such a common species in the United Kingdom, perhaps it is, in any case the ornithology service should issue some contribution in this regard.
In Galicia, it has not been documented that any pernis apivorus has raided a hive or apiary to cannibalize bees.

 

[fian]

The NBU have now issued a guide to monitoring. It mentions both trapping and bait stations, and doesn't, as they did in the recent presentation, give advice on only trapping in the designated high risk areas.

Available here https://www.nationalbeeunit.com/resources-for-beekeepers/leaflets-guides-and-videos/fact-sheets/

Simon

So everyone can do what they want, a rehash of the previous guide.
This is the national plan that Karol was talking about?