BBKA education

[Monsieur Abeille]

Even registering with Beebase, I note that there is what appears an innocuous question for 'how much honey do you produce' - seems pretty casual but there are stories to make you think on about this and it may disturb the sleep of many who believe the knock at the door would never come.

Oh dear, thought that was the late night stilton.

 

[Vergilius]

Nellie,

As a young, new(ish) beekeeper I would consider joining the BBKA to get advice, help, info etc. However, in terms of forums I do believe that it is important that a forum has free speech so that one can say what they think without getting booted or banned.
I know that you are oviously a fan of the BBKA and of its exams but not everyone is and this is where they can voice their concerns and even "bash" them. Some of it is serious (like this thread) but some of it is jokey (like referring to the BBKA forum as the "dark side").
Therefore keep your own views but let them "bash" and if you want you can "bash" back- it is the beauty of free speech.

Ben P

 

[drstitson]

BBKA membership

"1- No support locally
2 - No answers to questions posted on the other forum
3 - Attended a county show and ignored by all but 1 member
4 - No details on member contacts
5 - No info on location of association apiary
6 - No info on availablity of items for hire or price or how to hire
7 - One contact from alleged 'mentor' in 8 months"

One could undoubtedly come up with some ways that "passive" new members could better be engaged/encouraged by their local/county association. For example I am a shooter and although the CPSA record your county for competition & election purposes the only other recognition is a brief county report/results section in monthly journal. On the other hand, the MG Car Club have active county sections who produce newsletters and organise events/meets and keep members informed.

I don't know what newbees who join BBKA upfront are expecting or get. Don't most people nowadays get a bee book and/or contact local association for a visit before joining THROUGH their local association ie a more proactive approach. I started at ours in June last year (having just done the excellent River Cottage course) and was welcomed by the group and not asked to pay up and join until the new subscription started in october.

I presume that is how most people do or perhaps should join. The umbrella BBKA provides national support through courses, exams, journal and newsletters BUT as beekeeping is a practical hobby requiring constant advice, support and physical assistance (eg a frame of brood when queenless) so PROACTIVELY joining local association is the way to go. I don't doubt there are some branches with "funny" ideas and members but i'm sure they are in the minority and are far outweighed by the good ones like Epsom.

Perhaps some of the mentoring problems we hear about on the forum is down to the problem of PASSIVE newbeeks who want hand holding every step of the way WITHOUT going to the bother of PROACTIVELY approaching the hobby. I will happily help/advise anyone BUT would soon tire of someone who wanted me to do EVERYTHING for them. Likewise BBKA is an umbrella for the local groups NOT a day to day safety net.

Potential Newbees - buy a book or two, visit local association apiary (you'll find details on the web) and preferably do a beginners course or at least become a regular apiary attender (you don't need to buy any gear).

 

[drstitson]

stupid BBKA question

"how much honey do you produce?"

NONE

We harvest honey. It is produced by bees.

 

[madasafish]

"Potential Newbees - buy a book or two, visit local association apiary (you'll find details on the web) and preferably do a beginners course or at least become a regular apiary attender (you don't need to buy any gear).

Yep, I'm a 2010 newbie and that's what I did. North Staffs Association very helpful. Learned a lot..

 

[Nellie]

Nellie,

As a young, new(ish) beekeeper I would consider joining the BBKA to get advice, help, info etc. However, in terms of forums I do believe that it is important that a forum has free speech so that one can say what they think without getting booted or banned.
I know that you are oviously a fan of the BBKA and of its exams but not everyone is and this is where they can voice their concerns and even "bash" them. Some of it is serious (like this thread) but some of it is jokey (like referring to the BBKA forum as the "dark side").
Therefore keep your own views but let them "bash" and if you want you can "bash" back- it is the beauty of free speech.

Ben P

There's nothing I can say in reply to this that probably won't get me banned.

If you want to accept everything you're told at face value, that's up to you.

 

[Nellie]

Wish I could stand Nellie, apart from the obvious mentality of jobs for the boys around here, I am housebound and had to give up other committee work and charity/church events/responsibilities too.

Queens, I appreciate that. I think there is still very much that approach in beekeeping generally and that us new guys should know our place, toe the line and be grateful for what we're given. I think the recent explosion in interest has given them a bit of a fright and in some cases they aren't really sure what to do with a legion of new beekeepers who don't remember the "good old" days, want more from their association than just the newsletter and insurance and question everything.

The only other thing I can suggest is to contact the chairman and/or secretary directly.

 

[BKF Admin]

Nellie put the banned card away.
The only reason I have ever banned a member is for spamming their own website.

If I baned every member who did not agree with me or the majority it would be a ghost town around here.

The only advice I can give is to be aware that many beekeepers of less than 5 years has stood up for the BBKA only to find they had been used as a foot soldier at the end of the day with very little thanks for the time and effort put in.

Thats my personal experience anyway..

We tolerate Brosville's mad rants so I am sure we can manage some of yours

 

[Vergilius]

There's nothing I can say in reply to this that probably won't get me banned.

Not true.

Ben P

 

[Brosville]

Could someone gently explain why a wish to see pesticide company sponsorship, and the system that allowed it to happen is changed is in any way "mad?" -
I would have thought it entirely reasonable and logical, especially having always believed that "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing"

Rant? - certainly I do, as to it's madness I would quibble!

 

[Nellie]

Nellie put the banned card away.
The only reason I have ever banned a member is for spamming their own website.

If I baned every member who did not agree with me or the majority it would be a ghost town around here.

The only advice I can give is to be aware that many beekeepers of less than 5 years has stood up for the BBKA only to find they had been used as a foot soldier at the end of the day with very little thanks for the time and effort put in.

Thats my personal experience anyway..

We tolerate Brosville's mad rants so I am sure we can manage some of yours

Fair enough, whenthe admin of the "say what you like about the BBKA as long as it negative" forum turns up and says my only contribution to this forum is to tart around the BBKA then yeah, I'm expecting my account to be shut down.

You still seem to think that Im a BBKA "supporter". I'm not, I'm simply not prepared to slate them over everything they try and do just because they're the BBKA.

 

[Nellie]

Could someone gently explain why a wish to see pesticide company sponsorship, and the system that allowed it to happen is changed is in any way "mad?" -
I would have thought it entirely reasonable and logical, especially having always believed that "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing"

Rant? - certainly I do, as to it's madness I would quibble!

Its not the wish, it's the way it's expressed.

 

[Brosville]

And while I find myself in this thread, lets address the matter of BBKA courses a little more completely.
As I've already said, some people find them useful, some don't, and that certain courses are held in higher esteem than others, but the thing that I notice as a (more) natural beekeeper is the total lack of reference to the "alternative" hives and methods, and if a newbie goes to many associations, it is highly likely that they'll never even be offered them as a possible or viable alternative (sadly, often the opposite happens, "other" ways are painted as being of the very devil, and to be avoided) - they are then indoctrinated into what a cynic could describe as the "one true faith" with all the attendant delights - drone culling, marking/clipping queens, replacing queens, regular 8 day inspections, use of smoke at all times, replacing honey with sugar etc etc

Then we have the total ignoring of the internet as a potential teaching tool - as this forum demonstrates so well, a "broad church" can "meet" online, ideas can be exchanged, and those with special needs are on a level playing field with everybody else.
I've used "Moodle", which is excellent "online college" software before, and it would be very simple to set up online courses, it is cheap to set up and run, and people can learn at their own pace when it suits them. It isn't a substitute for "hands on" experience, but could and should be used as a part of a more modern way of disseminating knowledge. If it were free of "dark side" shackles, and there were a module by David Heaf on the finer points of Warre beekeeping, I'd be front of the queue!

C'mon admin, howsabout setting up the "Independent Beekeepers' Online College"?

 

[BKF Admin]

If its something members want I am happy to sort it.

Start another thread with a poll Brosville.

 

[Adam]

And while I find myself in this thread, lets address the matter of BBKA courses a little more completely.
As I've already said, some people find them useful, some don't, and that certain courses are held in higher esteem than others, but the thing that I notice as a (more) natural beekeeper is the total lack of reference to the "alternative" hives and methods, and if a newbie goes to many associations, it is highly likely that they'll never even be offered them as a possible or viable alternative (sadly, often the opposite happens, "other" ways are painted as being of the very devil, and to be avoided) - they are then indoctrinated into what a cynic could describe as the "one true faith" with all the attendant delights - drone culling, marking/clipping queens, replacing queens, regular 8 day inspections, use of smoke at all times, replacing honey with sugar etc etc

Then we have the total ignoring of the internet as a potential teaching tool - as this forum demonstrates so well, a "broad church" can "meet" online, ideas can be exchanged, and those with special needs are on a level playing field with everybody else.
I've used "Moodle", which is excellent "online college" software before, and it would be very simple to set up online courses, it is cheap to set up and run, and people can learn at their own pace when it suits them. It isn't a substitute for "hands on" experience, but could and should be used as a part of a more modern way of disseminating knowledge. If it were free of "dark side" shackles, and there were a module by David Heaf on the finer points of Warre beekeeping, I'd be front of the queue!

C'mon admin, howsabout setting up the "Independent Beekeepers' Online College"?

Brosville,

As you may well be aware, the wheels of the BBKA turn slowly. The idea of on-line learning is in hand as I understand it.

On alternative methods, I think you'll find with the removal of Module 4 (intermediate Biology) that a 'space' has been created. In fact, your summary of it being indoctrination in the "one true faith" is comical, and widely inaccurate. It's exactly the opposite. It forces you to examine every method, technique etc and understand why it started, what the benefits and disadvantages. Please don't insult me on this, having been through much of the syllabus, I know exactly how much time is spent understanding every possible method/methodology etc. It is categorically not a single view methodology.

Once David get's past his working hypothesis that bees prefer to work down than up and are stressed by empty space above I'm sure he will be given all the credit. Until that time, I study his theories with interest, argue (in a friendly way) with him and as I see formal research to be slow, that I will learn more using practical experience by running such a colony myself, and teach it to my intermediate group.

Adam

 

[Adam]

Nellie I may be being a little cynical here and I apologies if I have got it wrong but I get the impression that if the BBKA forum had more posters you would not grace us with your presence along with one or two others.

Not sure if I make it into the one or two others, but please don't think this is the only forum on beekeeping. I'm a member of several, and dive in daily to any number and pick a few choice topics of interest. You get a nice broad view across US forums, UK, Omlet etc. On methods, research, news, etc etc.

Adam

 

[Poly Hive]

Bross?

I have no idea who "David" is for a start.

From that negative beginning if I were to run a course, which I am seriously considering, then would I involve TBH? No. Why? because they are highly minority and so a distraction. If an attendee raised it I would say sorry but out of my knowledge and if you are online then......... and point them to Mr Chandler... through gritted teeth and if you have no understanding of that comment them you might like to Pm me and find out why?

I am in general in faviour of an online colllege but I do have reservations.

One, to be blunt is financial. I am used to being paid. I was the Aberdeenshire Beekeeping Lecturer.

Two is as already mentioned, locality. Though that can be addressed to a point.

Three is commitment, will they, students, and lecturers stick at it with no dosh involved?

PH

 

[Hivemaker.]

and point them to Mr Chandler... through gritted teeth and if you have no understanding of that comment them you might like to Pm me and find out why?

Was he involved in that infamous deed carried out in Glencoe all those years ago....

 

[Poly Hive]

B'He*l got it in one...

gosh

PH

 

[Brosville]

A few points - David Heaf has recently published a superb work on the finer points of Warre beekeeping - http://www.dheaf.plus.com/warrebeekeeping/beeindex.htm
Top bar hives and "natural" husbandry have every bit as much of a place as any other form of hives and beekeeping, and I would most certainly include Biodynamic beekeeping as well - we're all beekeepers trying to do the best for bees!
Which brings us to filthy lucre - some are happy to pass on their knowledge for free, some are willing to give their time on tuition for free, others want to make money, which is where "Moodle" is ideal - it already has payment gateways built in, so if people were confident in their abilities to charge for their courses, that's catered for too.
I've already criticised existing bodies for doing the ostrich bit over (more) natural beekeeping, and this would be an ideal medium to allow ALL types of beekeeping and methods to be given an airing - personally, I'd be very happy to see even an "official BBKA section" giving "ours is the one and only true faith" ways of doing things, as long as it's balanced by the likes of my friend Phil Chandler explaining kenyan top bar hives, David Heaf extolling Warre beekeeping, and Heidi outlining the virtues of Biodynamics, perhaps get Oscar Perone to translate his methods......... A really healthy selection which would allow people to make informed choices, whatever their inclination........

I'd like to see several "basic intro" courses for free, which could have the added "hooks" that people could choose to pay for a guided course with an "expert" as a follow-on, or have the freebie offerings which I hope would also be donated - something for everyone!

I've made my views fairly plain upon many aspects of "conventional" beekeeping with which I have "differences", but I feel it should have a place, as should ALL other disciplines!