At what point will the NBU give up on AHs?

[warsaw_hive]

You would hope that somebody is doing the maths. If the AH becomes established then how much money will local governments be spending clearing nests from near playgrounds, schools, roads etc? What would be the loss of revenue from damaged crops etc? What price do you put on the public nuisance from AH? Or the damage to native wildlife? The price of treating stings?

Once you arrive at a figure per year for the cost of an established AH, then you spend up to that amount per year on trying to stop it. I would think that is many times the cost of removing 200 nests.

200 nests might be the maximum the NBU can handle themselves using their current removal techniques, but once that is exceeded pest controllers could be employed, or fipronil custard be used etc. Or this 200 figure might be completely made up.

I'm not on Facebook so have no idea what is being discussed on there. My personal take on these recent AH sightings is that they should be celebrated. The campaign from the BBKA/NBU to get the public to report AH is working. They've had recent articles in all the papers I think, so well done the BBKA.

Hornets/nests are going to be found every year arrived via trucks etc, so this current hysteria is ridiculous. Are we going to have this on every sighting? It is inevitable at some point a nest is going to reach full maturity without being found (and I'm not saying this has happened yet), but the UK is not rural France, we'd have to be very negligent to let it get established even if one of more nests make it to winter.

The current strategy is a success. My only gripe is around communication about sightings. We get to hear about them via Chinese whispers. A vacuum of information is inevitably filled with rubbish. Each sighting should be listed on an official place and the full context provided. Until that point, people "in the know" should behave professionally and not leak information to their friends.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Each sighting should be listed on an official place and the full context provided.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/asian-hornet-uk-sightings#full-publication-update-history

 

[fian]

You would hope that somebody is doing the maths. If the AH becomes established then how much money will local governments be spending clearing nests from near playgrounds, schools, roads etc? What would be the loss of revenue from damaged crops etc? What price do you put on the public nuisance from AH? Or the damage to native wildlife? The price of treating stings?

Once you arrive at a figure per year for the cost of an established AH, then you spend up to that amount per year on trying to stop it. I would think that is many times the cost of removing 200 nests.

200 nests might be the maximum the NBU can handle themselves using their current removal techniques, but once that is exceeded pest controllers could be employed, or fipronil custard be used etc. Or this 200 figure might be completely made up.

I'm not on Facebook so have no idea what is being discussed on there. My personal take on these recent AH sightings is that they should be celebrated. The campaign from the BBKA/NBU to get the public to report AH is working. They've had recent articles in all the papers I think, so well done the BBKA.

Hornets/nests are going to be found every year arrived via trucks etc, so this current hysteria is ridiculous. Are we going to have this on every sighting? It is inevitable at some point a nest is going to reach full maturity without being found (and I'm not saying this has happened yet), but the UK is not rural France, we'd have to be very negligent to let it get established even if one of more nests make it to winter.

The current strategy is a success. My only gripe is around communication about sightings. We get to hear about them via Chinese whispers. A vacuum of information is inevitably filled with rubbish. Each sighting should be listed on an official place and the full context provided. Until that point, people "in the know" should behave professionally and not leak information to their friends.

The problem is not in rural areas but in cities since that is where, according to nest removal statistics, their proportion is highest and the average temperature is highest.
In Galicia there is an immunization program for those allergic people, since according to the USC (the main allergy component is the same as that of goat wasp). At the moment I know that 3 vials of different proportions are needed for progressive immunization, they come from the United Kingdom and the cost per person amounts to about 4,000 euros (only part of this cost is paid by the patient).

 

[JohnRB]

The problem is not in rural areas but in cities since that is where, according to nest removal statistics, their proportion is highest and the average temperature is highest.
In Galicia there is an immunization program for those allergic people, since according to the USC (the main allergy component is the same as that of goat wasp). At the moment I know that 3 vials of different proportions are needed for progressive immunization, they come from the United Kingdom and the cost per person amounts to about 4,000 euros (only part of this cost is paid by the patient).

According to Andrew Durham, the rural areas are exactly the problem - nobody lives there to report nests and because they are not destroyed they produce lots of queens to replace colonies destroyed in urban areas.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Or this 200 figure might be completely made up.

it is - that's the whole point, just another attention seeker trying to make himself out a hero.

 

[fian]

According to Andrew Durham, the rural areas are exactly the problem - nobody lives there to report nests and because they are not destroyed they produce lots of queens to replace colonies destroyed in urban areas.

It is true that the chances of sighting are lower since there is a smaller population, but it is enough to include a small camera in front of the fuse device with a remote control that allows the recording to be reviewed later. If there is a sighting in the recording, it is a matter of sending a team to an on-site check.
Furthermore, biological competition is greater in rural areas than in the city.

 

[warsaw_hive]

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/asian-hornet-uk-sightings#full-publication-update-history

Thanks, I didn't even know that page existed. Is it linked from the BBKA/NBU sites? It rather proves my point though, the latest sightings aren't yet on there. Far too slow. And not a lot of information.

The BBKA seem to be the fastest official source, but perhaps too fast. For example, last Friday they tweeted about the Preston sighting, then a few hours later added the context. In those few hours a good number of bee farmers had had a meltdown.

it is - that's the whole point, just another attention seeker trying to make himself out a hero.

As I said in a previous post, people don't like to accept there are blatant liars amongst us. So we prefer to think of them as misunderstandings.

I honestly have no idea who you are talking about. If you had said that he sells raw honey then obviously I would have been certain it was made up.

 

[warsaw_hive]

Just to add, why haven't we had the DNA results from last year's nests yet?

 

[Murox]

Just to add, why haven't we had the DNA results from last year's nests yet?

Do you need to ask them?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Thanks, I didn't even know that page existed. Is it linked from the BBKA/NBU sites? It rather proves my point though, the latest sightings aren't yet on there. Far too slow. And not a lot of information.

It’s linked from Beebase and I agree. Too slow

 

[fian]

Just to add, why haven't we had the DNA results from last year's nests yet?

It is evident that it is not important for the conclusions to be public. In a previous thread someone posted the trailers and timidly talked about the production of queens and drones. So honestly, from there to successful hibernation of queens there is only one step.

 

[OldFarm]

warsaw_hive said:
Just to add, why haven't we had the DNA results from last year's nests yet?

From the February briefing

Nigel Semmence, NBU
2016 - 2022 rough 2 nests a year + 13 individual sightings with no nests
2023 72 nests, 56 locations all in ports and coastal areas
20,000 sightings reported, 150 were accurate.

The majority of queens examined in the UK were found to have mated with 1 male. This compares to an average of 4 - 5 in France and >5 in China.

The areas of concern are:
Plymouth 3 AHs found that were not related to a known nest
Yarm nest destroyed there was found to have produced males
Kent & East Sussex AHs not belonging to known nests found, 5 nests produced new queens

 

[Newbeeneil]

warsaw_hive said:
Just to add, why haven't we had the DNA results from last year's nests yet?

From the February briefing

Where is this briefing?

 

[JamezF]

Not even 1% of sightings reported being accurate is a bit disappointing.

James

 

[warsaw_hive]

Where is this briefing?

Presumably

Have to wait for the BBKA spring convention for more info it seems.

Chinese whispers say two of the unallocated hornets in Plymouth were found dead at the side of the road and the third nearby which hints at falling out of a vehicle. No idea if that is correct or not.

 

[Karol]

warsaw_hive said:
Just to add, why haven't we had the DNA results from last year's nests yet?

From the February briefing

"Nigel Semmence, NBU
2016 - 2022 rough 2 nests a year + 13 individual sightings with no nests
2023 72 nests, 56 locations all in ports and coastal areas
20,000 sightings reported, 150 were accurate."

This is precisely why I caution about the drive to engage lay members of the public. 19,850 false alerts deflects the NBU from their urgent task at hand. What would be interesting to know is what proportion of the accurate sightings came from beekeepers, pest controllers or related disciplines?

"The majority of queens examined in the UK were found to have mated with 1 male. This compares to an average of 4 - 5 in France and >5 in China."

This is of interest for which there are at least two possibilities premised on the queens coming from a region of low velutina population density. However, without more detailed information on the distribution of single vs multiple mated queens it is impossible to draw any firm conclusions. The queens may have been produced and mated in the UK but that would not explain the coastal distribution. What would explain the coastal distribution is queens produced at the fringes of expansion in France being blown over by Spring winds and being dispersed over a wide arc.

"The areas of concern are:
Plymouth 3 AHs found that were not related to a known nest"

Queens or workers? If workers were they related clones or unrelated? If related then possibly from an unidentified nest otherwise not of that much of a concern.

"Yarm nest destroyed there was found to have produced males"

Not of that much concern because this would indicate loss of the queen giving rise to males being produced by sterile workers.

"Kent & East Sussex AHs not belonging to known nests found, 5 nests produced new queens"

Doesn't say how many and whether workers or queens? Again same question of whether they were workers and if so were they clones of each other.

That 5 nests produced queens is of concern but again little by way of detail. How many queen cells and had the queens flown or were they larval or pupal?

 

[OldFarm]

Where is this briefing?

It was a BBKA briefing on 17 February 2024, I thought it was on Youtube, but can't see it. Other points:

Martin Smith, eR2 Project Manager: Regarding the NBU, there is now a commitment to report +ve sightings to local co-ordinators, acknowledging that this has not happened in the past.

Alistair Christ, Jersey
In Jersey they will be:
Trapping for queens from 20th March until mid July
Tracking workers starts mid June.
The have observed that bird nest boxes are frequant embryo nest sites and are putting up bird boxes to try and attract them - easy to remove the boxes and deal with queens.
Reinforced that ensuring bycatch release is essential, monitors should be used not traps. Traps are only used when AHs are known to be around.

 

[Karol]

Thanks, I didn't even know that page existed. Is it linked from the BBKA/NBU sites? It rather proves my point though, the latest sightings aren't yet on there. Far too slow. And not a lot of information.

There's a world of difference between confirmed and reported sightings. Why would you expect the NBU to report suspected sightings?

The BBKA seem to be the fastest official source, but perhaps too fast. For example, last Friday they tweeted about the Preston sighting, then a few hours later added the context. In those few hours a good number of bee farmers had had a meltdown.

There is definitely a need for alerts to be raised. The question is how to achieve this calmly and effectively. What is required is cool heads with a defined sense of purpose rather than an instalment of Keystone beeks!

I remain of the opinion that the best course of action is that all beekeepers set up wick based bait stations and monitor periodically. I would suggest that the level of monitoring should depend on level of risk. Monitoring is a function of the number of bait stations and the interval over which each bait station is observed which itself will be a function of the time of year.

Using a green, amber and red risk based system is a good idea based on distance from previously confirmed nest locations but I would suggest changing the proximities so that distances of more than 30 miles are considered green, between 30 and 10 miles are amber and anything less than 10 miles are considered red.

In green zones, I would suggest that beekeepers set just one wick based bait station preferrably at a location as close to a water source as possible that has woodland not too far away such that the scent of the bait station is carried towards the woodland. The bait station should be observed for a one hour spell once a fortnight up until the beginning of July. Thereafter, the bait station can be observed for a 20 minute spell once per fortnight.

In amber areas as for green areas plus I would suggest increasing the frequency of observations to weekly instead of fortnightly and I would suggest augmenting the use of bait stations with observation of naturally occuring flora, wood pulp sources and compost heaps (important hunting ground for vespines).

In red areas as per amber but I would suggest increasing the number of bait stations but would suggest setting the bait stations at linear intervals of 250m. By linear intervals, I mean along the edge of woodland (circa 50 to 100m away) such that the scent of the bait stations is carried into the woodland.

When setting bait stations, prevailing wind direction is important. Velutina is a preferred high level wet woodland nester. It is important therefore to carefully consider the direction of the scent plumes produced by the bait stations to maximise their draw. Linear orientation with perpendicular prevailing wind will maximise draw. Longitudinal orientation is simply a wasted deployment of bait stations.

I would caution against setting bait stations in close proximity to apiaries and what is more, I would strongly advise against setting bait stations such that their scent travels towards the hives. That is simply begging for trouble because it will only serve to draw any velutina to the hives instead of the bait stations.

Apiaries also need to be monitored as a separate draw. So placing bait stations at apiaries only serves to reduce the availability of observation points.

Monitoring at hives should also be risk based. In green areas carry on as usual. In amber areas inspect apiaries at least weekly observing hives for at least a 20 minute spell. In red areas, observe hives every third day and observe again for at least a 20 minute spell.

Finally in this instalment, don't forget to maintain the bait stations to keep them topped up. I would recommend adding maple syrup to the sugar mix. A good indicator of how well the bait station is working will be the presence of other insects but don't be surprised if your bait stations are ignored by other indigenous vespines during the hunting season. Queen wasps will exploit bait stations until they become nest bound. After that worker wasps generally won't come to sweet bait stations until their nests mature which usually won't be before the end of July. This is because vespine workers get all of their carbs from within their nests. Velutina workers on the other hand require supplementation which is why they will come to bait stations earlier than vespines.

There is one other bait that might be worth experimenting with and that is macerated grass with alcohol. I know this sounds wacky but one of the ways in which vespines find grazing insect prey is by detecting the smell of leaf damage caused by grazing insects. The bait requires grinding a handful of grass with a little cheap vodka and then diluting with water and using this in a wick bait station. I'm not recommending this as a substitute for sweet bait stations. Just a suggestion to experiment with. If the grass bait station attracts hunting wasps (including queens) it will be a good substitute for protein baits which go off and stink after a while.

 

[Erichalfbee]

to males being produced by sterile workers.

Does Velutina do this?

 

[Karol]

Does Velutina do this?

All vespines do. One of the tasks of an incumbent queen is to destroy eggs laid by sterile workers until such time as drones need to be produced. Then she will either lay eggs that have not been fertilized or allow eggs laid by workers to develop.