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Any beekeeper should take a look at this article in which it analyzes possible ecological niches.
It is curious but this summer's incidence in Kent seems to match well with the article that predicts a red spot (high incidence) in the southeast of England.
https://www.researchgate.net/figure...der-current-climate-conditions_fig1_359563642
It does nothing of the sort. Where's the 'ecological' analysis to support the conclusions of the report? Don't see any prey distribution data or habitat analysis. Just more sensationalism to allow trolls to spread panic.

The distribution seen this year in the UK is commensurate with pre-mated velutina queens being blown across the channel by strong spring winds. Until we have confirmation of propagation in the UK we do not have an established infestation.....just an outbreak which we don't yet know if it has been contained.
 
As I understand it, the theory is that by killing queens in the Spring, leaving a smaller number alive, they raise larger nests as competition has been reduced. The outcome being the same amount of hornets around. (Karol please correct me if this is wrong).
My confusion is this: if there are six hornet queens that successfully overwinter in my area and I catch four of them by trapping and by doing so encourage two large nests to develop, it would be a simpler job then, in Summer, to FC just two hornets and clear the area, than try to FC hornets from more nests.
?????
Larger nests may - note: MAY - produce proportionately more Qs to over-winter ? Thus more of a risk?
Certainly more dangerous to destroy?
 
It does nothing of the sort. Where's the 'ecological' analysis to support the conclusions of the report? Don't see any prey distribution data or habitat analysis. Just more sensationalism to allow trolls to spread panic.

The distribution seen this year in the UK is commensurate with pre-mated velutina queens being blown across the channel by strong spring winds. Until we have confirmation of propagation in the UK we do not have an established infestation.....just an outbreak which we don't yet know if it has been contained.
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0185172Because the nests found in the United Kingdom do NOT come from the French Atlantic coast and arrive driven by the wind. This article clarifies it.
DNA analysis implies that French Atlantic queens are fertilized by 2 to 4 drones while the queens of the first nests found in the United Kingdom correspond to queens fertilized by a single drone.
 
Because the nests found in the United Kingdom do NOT come from the French Atlantic coast and arrive driven by the wind. This article clarifies it.
no it doesn't - it deals mostly with the first Velutina detection in the UK some eight years ago, does not even mention how it arrived here, and probably hitched a lift on road freight, not windborne.
It has no relevance whatsoever to the incursions in Kent and the South coast
 
no it doesn't - it deals mostly with the first Velutina detection in the UK some eight years ago, does not even mention how it arrived here, and probably hitched a lift on road freight, not windborne.
It has no relevance whatsoever to the incursions in Kent and the South coast
Well nothing, we are still waiting for the NBU to do its job, but due to the time it takes to analyze the nests recovered late we will be able to draw conclusions.
 
And your point is ????
Analyzing the nests it is concluded that at least until 2019:
A. There is no relationship between the destroyed and analyzed nests.
B. Except for 1 nest, the rest estimate that it is 1 queen fertilized by a drone, so if they correspond to queens lost from the French Atlantic coast arrived due to atmospheric conditions, it would be 1 queen fertilized by at least 2 drones.
C. Therefore, arrivals do not occur for atmospheric reasons but rather for unintentional human action.
Now we just have to wait for the NBU or any other scientific entity to do the same for 2020-2023. But due to the number of nests found and destroyed in Kent (2023), point A will not be met since we are not talking about 1 or 2 nests per year but more than 20.
 
I post articles and scientific reports so that other users can read them and draw their conclusions. Some of you only intend to discredit without rigor but the information is available for those who seek it.
 
I post articles and scientific reports so that other users can read them and draw their conclusions. Some of you only intend to discredit without rigor but the information is available for those who seek it.
Without rigor?

So, what should be taken away from the paper you cited is:

Up until 2019 there was no evidence of UK propagation (which still remains the case pending NBU confirmation).

That velutina requires a protein rich diet (hence the reason to protect native vespine populations to deplete naturally available protein sources).

That a nest of 6000 adults can only produce 350 gynes (whereas a nest of 5000 vespula sp. can produce 1200 gynes meaning that any measures to deplete available protein e.g. not destroying native vespines, will drastically inhibit gyne production in velutina).

In other words, spring trapping must be avoided at all costs in the UK.

The correct strategy is monitor, report and allow the NBU to do its work. End of.

IF and only IF the NBU are overwhelmed will a change in strategy to species specific eradication be warranted.

What you and your colleagues do Fian in Galicia is entirely your prerogative. Just stop superimposing failed control models onto the UK through sensationalist posts.
 
Without rigor?
Without rigor because there is no scientific publication that supports the actions of the NBU, even in the guide that I presented and is current there is the possibility of cheating.
If you want to deny a reality (in Kent, the VV is expanding due to winter survival) that is your right but the increase in the number of nests is not due to an increase in imports (uncertain origin due to human activity) nor to atmospheric phenomena but if you find a scientific article that affirms it, I am willing to rectify it.
 
in Kent, the VV is expanding due to winter survival
can you point us to any (and I mean any) corroborated evidence of this?
but if you find a scientific article that affirms it
can you to affirm your unfounded theory
 
So, what should be taken away from the paper you cited is:

Up until 2019 there was no evidence of UK propagation (

That a nest of 6000 adults can only produce 350 gynes (whereas a nest of 5000 vespula sp. can produce 1200 gynes meaning that any measures to deplete available protein e.g. not destroying native vespines, will drastically inhibit gyne production in velutina)
He seems to ignore that any vespina can be eaten by a velutina except perhaps an EH due to its larger size.
It is also documented that velutinas can build nests in urban areas, which can divert the problem to a higher risk area.
Finally, now we are going to be guardians of normative conclusions and not of those that one can acquire, we applaud a Protestant for prohibiting the free interpretation of the Bible.
 
can you point us to any (and I mean any) corroborated evidence of this?

can you to affirm your unfounded theory
I have no more data than the increase in nests. So I try to answer the question:
If the external conditions have not changed (there were no more imports in 2023 than in other years, nor were the meteorological conditions different) then there can only be an internal source.
Furthermore, in 2020-2022, no nests were detected in Kent, so some queens could have been free to emit a generation that overwintered, but in May 2023, simple captures of Asian hornets occurred.
This does not mean that Sussex or Somerset are in that situation.
 
He seems to ignore that any vespina can be eaten by a velutina except perhaps an EH due to its larger size.
It is also documented that velutinas can build nests in urban areas, which can divert the problem to a higher risk area.
Finally, now we are going to be guardians of normative conclusions and not of those that one can acquire, we applaud a Protestant for prohibiting the free interpretation of the Bible.
As politically correct as the Spanish inquisition......what a shameful and ignorant comment to make.
 
I have no more data than the increase in nests. So I try to answer the question:
If the external conditions have not changed (there were no more imports in 2023 than in other years, nor were the meteorological conditions different) then there can only be an internal source.
Furthermore, in 2020-2022, no nests were detected in Kent, so some queens could have been free to emit a generation that overwintered, but in May 2023, simple captures of Asian hornets occurred.
This does not mean that Sussex or Somerset are in that situation.
Perhaps you should read up on storm Noa. 12th April 2023. Strongest winds for that time of year for 50 years. Kinda knocks your statement on no meteorological anomalies into a cocked hat!
 
I appreciate there is a lot of confusion but that's because we have individuals posting from different territories without regard to the topographical and ecological differences between the territories and without regard to the prevailing conditions of infestation.

The issue of competition is competition between indigenous vespines (UK) / vespids (Med) and the invasive velutina. Any spring trapping which results in destruction of even small numbers of indigenous vespines/vespids will enhance the chances of velutina queen survival and nest maturation. It is all to do with population level numbers rather than individual experience.

Think of it this way. Spring trapping in the UK will create pockets of opportunity for velutina to exploit resulting in 'ink blots' of infestation. The more ink blots the more likelihood of sexuals encountering sexuals from other nests and successfully mating.

The UK is not naturally ecologically conducive to velutina. It's important that beekeepers don't unwittingly make it more conducive by unnecessarily removing vespine competition which will simply have the effect of increasing resources for velutina to establish itself.

The situation in the UK is very very different from that in continental Europe.

My comments to Richard were not at a personal level. They were at a territorial population level. Velutina has exploded in France because the wrong strategies were adopted concentrating on trapping and hive protection instead of species specific eradication.

Species specific eradication has the benefit of tipping conditions in favour of indigenous vespines both in terms of resource and in terms of direct interaction. Velutina will kill indigenous vespines at a favourable but not absolute rate meaning that indigenous populations have to be numerically superior to stand any chance of survival. Spring trapping of bycatch, however small that bycatch, will always favour velutina because it is a top line predator.

To respond to Richard's question. Perpignan is vespid territory, i.e. has a native mix of vespines and polistes wasps. Polistes wasps are simply not a problem for hives as they specialise in hunting smaller flying insects such as mosquitos. Polistes wasps which have open multiqueen colonies are easy prey for velutina and will be the first mass casualties to velutina but because they tend only to be noticed around recreational water activities, they aren't missed by the local populus. Polistes wasps are an integral line of defence against the spread of mosquito borne diseases.

Velutina will appear in February in Perpignan because it is a warmer Med climate. However, such unqualified comments are unhelpful to beekeepers in the UK who may take that as a cue to taking early spring trapping action. Perpignan has the disadvantage of being ecologically conducive to velutina so the issue of competition is of a different order and not so finely balanced as in the UK. The balance between vespines and polistes in Perpgnan is such that one would not expect much in the way of vespine bycatch anyway. So any bycatch that you have will have vastly greater impact. Why? Because polistes wasps can't resist velutina in the same way they resist smaller vespines. They can't withstand velutina attacking their open nests. Moreover vespine populations are naturally less abundant which accentuates the impact of even the smallest bycatch.

So Richard, you are suffering from the collective approach adopted in France which has not worked. That is the point I am making. My recommendation is to focus on species specific eradication and encourage local vespid populations to recover. Until such time as that strategy is adopted universally you will be slated to continue with local eradication which needs to be maintained even when numbers of velutina crash otherwise they will rebound.
Just to note that Richard Noel in Normandy advocates AH queen spring trapping as an effective control method and his maritime climate is very similar to where I am, hence my thoughts. He starts trapping in February….
 
Just to note that Richard Noel in Normandy advocates AH queen spring trapping as an effective control method and his maritime climate is very similar to where I am, hence my thoughts. He starts trapping in February….
You have a confirmed established infestation in your neck of the woods do you? The same as Normandy? Where's your bocage hedgerows or similar ecological habitat? You may have similar climate but you are worlds apart ecologically. Let the NBU do its work. If it becomes overwhelmed then you'll have plenty of time to play with traps. Set the traps now and you'll kill off lots of vespines blindly because the probability of you killing any velutina at this juncture is remote. Set monitoring bait stations by all means. If you get a positive hit then revisit your strategy. No harm done either way.
 
Perhaps you should read up on storm Noa. 12th April 2023. Strongest winds for that time of year for 50 years. Kinda knocks your statement on no meteorological anomalies into a cocked hat!
I have just seen how storm Noa affected the United Kingdom and taking into account that its eye moved from Ulster to London and then heading towards the North Sea, together with the fact that the tail turns from Normandy towards Amsterdam, it is impossible that the Velutinas drag remained in the United Kingdom. Furthermore, after a phenomenon under these conditions the number of sightings should be greater (more sightings over a larger area) as happened with a certain ladybug in 2002.
 
Without rigor?

So, what should be taken away from the paper you cited is:

Up until 2019 there was no evidence of UK propagation (which still remains the case pending NBU confirmation).

That velutina requires a protein rich diet (hence the reason to protect native vespine populations to deplete naturally available protein sources).

That a nest of 6000 adults can only produce 350 gynes (whereas a nest of 5000 vespula sp. can produce 1200 gynes meaning that any measures to deplete available protein e.g. not destroying native vespines, will drastically inhibit gyne production in velutina).

In other words, spring trapping must be avoided at all costs in the UK.

The correct strategy is monitor, report and allow the NBU to do its work. End of.

IF and only IF the NBU are overwhelmed will a change in strategy to species specific eradication be warranted.

What you and your colleagues do Fian in Galicia is entirely your prerogative. Just stop superimposing failed control models onto the UK through sensationalist posts.
If last year's numbers were not a blip. then then NBU are likely to be overwhelmed this year and AH will became established.
 
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