Yesterday's Hansard Report on Bees

[East Yorks New Bee]

hi guys
I have been out of bee keeping for about fifteen years, and now I have started started again I have a renewed thirst for information, a lot has changed in that time. I joined this forum and at the same time I joined the BBka forum for about one hour, I received an email telling me I was not a suitable member for their forum. I gave the same information to both forums, they had a question for bbka member number, I am a member of the scotish bka so couldnt give one. In the old days a beekeeper either new or an old hand was welcomed not it appears today. I am greatful to your forum for letting me join, your post are proving very useful, I am afraid I will never now have a good word for the bkka.
regards rourkie

First time I tried to register on the other site I recieved this email
"Dear megabyte36,

Unfortunately your registration at British Beekeepers' Association Discussion Forum did not meet our membership requirements. Therefore your registration was deleted.

Sorry,
British Beekeepers' Association Discussion Forum"

So I replied in my nicest tone.
"Please explain why? I am a newly starting out keeping bees I am a member of the Beverley BKA which makes me a member of Yorkshire BKA which I understand is affiliated to the British BKA. If this is how new beekeepers are to be treated I may as well just muddle my way through doing things how I think they should be done, instead of looking to places for help.

I got this its sort of an apology.
"Hi Dave,

I was worried that this was a spam user account going by your email address
Megabyte36 made you look like a computer hardware retailer and the web address in your signature looked like a commercial company trying to gain exposure in the BBKA forum, the forum rules are very strict in this area.

If you want to re-register with a different user name I'll make sure you get authorised this time.

Sorry for inconvenience but I acted with the best intentions. "

 

[BKF Admin]

Hi laddie .
you are welcome on the other forum.

What requires membership ,is the members area only, nothing sinister just that there are free down loads "Swarm control , bbka leaflets etc".
I am not promoting the other forum in anyway, merely pointing out that access and posting rights are not barred .
John Wilkinson

Rubbish !

The decision to close the BBKA forum to non members was because of the amount of journelists typing in the url and reading anti BBKA posts before the mods had a chance to delete /alter messages and then go on to ban members before the hacks had a chance to quote the posts in the media.

What the bbka exec tell area members is not always 100% as it first appears.

Regards turning down membership and banning members,to date this forum has not had to ban a single account or refuse anyone membership.

Now why should we be any different ?

John I think your defense of the BBKA is admirable and at local level you can do no better than joining up and learning from others,I have personaly talked 6 new beekeepers into joining our lacal bbka this season alone,BUT as you climb higher up the BBKA ladder things go a little pete Tong.

We do have a couple of members on this forum that have been around the BBKA exec committee and have always supported them,only to find that what information they have been given is not always the 100% accurate as it passes down the line,you can end up with egg on your face and looking pretty damn stupid if you trust them to much...

 

[victor meldrew]

Rubbish !

We do have a couple of members on this forum that have been around the BBKA exec committee and have always supported them,only to find that what information they have been given is not always the 100% accurate as it passes down the line,you can end up with egg on your face and looking pretty damn stupid if you trust them to much...

Well Admin,
I am both surprised and disappointed by this post. I laboured under the misapprehension that I'd joined a fair unbiased forum where beekeeping was the prime mover and political point scoring was discouraged.
Yes I am a proud member of the BBKA, I am also in possession of a bus-pass the criteria for which isn't having to be pretty damn stupid .
At the risk of repeating myself I will re-state that the BBKA is far from perfect, I also know members of "the committee" (how high do you wish to go ?).
Surely we are all passionate about bees and their well being; indulging in name calling, blaming all and sundry will never solve the problems at hand.
Co-operation, joined up thinking, solid evidence rather than selective copying and pasting volumes of speculative missives 'often vitriolic' is definately not the way to go.
Please let us bury the hatchet (and not in each others' heads).
We have reached a position which would have happened with or without BBKA sponsership, where our bees are under threat as never before and our priority must be to find a solution asap , this will be done (where needs must the Devil drives), by us all singing from the same song sheet.
There are those who think " leave it to nature ,after all bees have been around for millions of years ", there are those who advocate chemical/antibiotic intervention , there are those to whom AI will provide the answer.
At this moment in time, NO ONE knows the answer, yes press for the banning of insecticides,( sounds cool) but remember things are not black and white. This over populated world has become dependant on massed produced chemically drenched food. (I admit I haven't helped .3 children, 8 grandchildren and 4 great grand children at the last count ).
Joking aside, that is the crux of the matter.
I've stayed a little from the point for which I apologise but 'come on ' we're bigger than this , at least we ought to be ?

John Wilkinson

 

[BKF Admin]

John I am sorry that you are disappointed by my post.

Its a shame that some beekeepers do have to post such things,Its not name calling,It's just passing on what I have been told first hand.

We are both old enough to be aware how the world goes around regards committees and associations.

I often try to avoid the politics of beekeepeing on the forum,but some times my fingers do itch a bit when I see posts that let the BBKA off the hook.

I promise to try and refrain from my comments that some find upsetting.

Out of interest in what way do you think this forum could be biased ?

If its regarding the attacks on the BBKA and funding issue's do you think its best ignored ?

 

[Brosville]

Strange as it may seem to some, I agree with a great deal of what John says - I lean very firmly towards the idea that if cures are to be found for the problems with bees that they will come from the "natural" end of things, but also accept that there are "other ways", and agree that we should share a common purpose.
I'd happily sing from the same hymn sheet, as long as it doesn't have Bayer sponsorship..........
As I said in an earlier post, I was off to spend the afternoon with a local group of beekeepers - I did so, and they epitomised to me all that is best in beekeeping - they were kind and helpful to a large bunch of newbies - and are quite accepting of the bloke with the top-bar hive ("coo, can we come and have a look" rather than being in any way "anti") - when the great day comes that the same open attitude is prevalent throughout the BBKA all the way to the top, it'll have me as a keen and supportive (but doubtless still argumentative) member!

 

[jimbeekeeper]

Hi laddie .

What requires membership ,is the members area only, nothing sinister just that there are free down loads "Swarm control , bbka leaflets etc".

Without membership you can only view the announcements and Honeybee help..thats it nothing else.

So basically less than 10% can be viewed, and you can not even reply to that.

And given the two recent posts about not been accepted, that is not good.

There are of course many ways to skin a cat, but that is another story

Jimbeekeeper, living on forever C99 I thnak you!

 

[victor meldrew]

John I am sorry that you are disappointed by my post.

Its a shame that some beekeepers do have to post such things,Its not name calling,It's just passing on what I have been told first hand.

We are both old enough to be aware how the world goes around regards committees and associations.

I often try to avoid the politics of beekeepeing on the forum,but some times my fingers do itch a bit when I see posts that let the BBKA off the hook.

I promise to try and refrain from my comments that some find upsetting.

Out of interest in what way do you think this forum could be biased ?

If its regarding the attacks on the BBKA and funding issue's do you think its best ignored ?

Letting the BBKA off the hook isn't on my agenda but it mustn't be a fight to the death ! Fighting from within is my motto . I for instance know which way my delegate voted in the fiasco of a vote on sponsorship !. how many can say that ?.
Hurling brickbats from without, will alter nowt , it will only result in trench warfare , the bees being the losers .
Bias: On the whole , fairness is the order of the day (this is what attracted me in the first place .) Having said that, the instant rebuff on me posting an objection to a post I thought was ott ,rang alarm bells. If I'm not allowed to have an opinion without Admin intervening then this is where the bias creeps in.
All in all, this forum does a good job , providing a neutral platform for concrete ideas aimed at a way out of the demise of the creatures we all admire, rather than become an arena for blood sports .

regards John Wilkinson

 

[BKF Admin]

Sorry John,I should of not replied with the Admin hat on because I am Admin of the running of the software and server,My opinion is no better than any other member of the forum.

No member imput=No forum.
I am just the custodian not in any way a voice of authority.

I may of been a bit quick to fire off in my posts,I just get a bit protective of this forum and its members when it comes to BBKA issues,they have given us a hard time in the past by using a few dirty tricks and tactics so I am a little OTT when their name is mentioned.

A handshake goes out from Admin to John

 

[victor meldrew]

Sorry John,I should of not replied with the Admin hat on because I am Admin of the running of the software and server,My opinion is no better than any other member of the forum.

No member imput=No forum.
I am just the custodian not in any way a voice of authority.

I may of been a bit quick to fire off in my posts,I just get a bit protective of this forum and its members when it comes to BBKA issues,they have given us a hard time in the past by using a few dirty tricks and tactics so I am a little OTT when their name is mentioned.

A handshake goes out from Admin to John

With pleasure . .

I was a bit quick for an owd chap .
John Wilkinson.

 

[DulwichGnome]

I feel very fortunate to have found a hobby (bee keeping) which has brought me pleasure and into contact with so many kind and generous people (Bromley Bee Keeping Association) in such a sort space of time. I believe I am an associate member of the BBKA and it was that membership, along with their insurance, that meant I was able to jump thou the hoops that the committees governing the out apiary I use put in front of me. For that I thank the BBKA.

It now turns out that this hobby of mine is the political hot potato of the year, till the MoP were found with their hands in the till, and the BBKA is a corrupt and immoral organisation in bed with the devil (Bayer). Of this I know nothing, maybe I should try and join their forum and find out! I know the shows are a bit WI, visions of a bee keepers calender are forcefully suppressed, but when ever bee keepers meet it mostly bee they talk about and that's why I will still go to them.

The reason for this preamble is I find it very hard to get worked up about what I can't change. There are X millions of pounds on the table for research and the sharks have begun to circle to insure the “right” people are given the money, sorry research funds. It would be nice if some of it came down to the club level, not sure how but maybe funding for training hives or hygiene equipment but I am not holding my breath.

I look forward to reading from more informed members of this forum than me.

Mike.

 

[Busy Bee]

Sleeping with the enemy

Hi All,

I have been reading this thread and several thoughts have come to mind.

"Wolf in Sheeps Clothing"
"Pearly Gates at the Entrance of Hell"

I'm glad I not a member of BBKA. I also get the distinct feeling John knows more about the BBKA than he writes about. He defends them admirally, with great intent but with something bigger to defend than we know, I get the feeling he a different agenda and motive then Bees.

Just an outside opinion.


Busy Bee

 

[lusklabs]

Being a new member to this forum and indeed this being the only beekeeping forum I am a member of, I have to say that I dont fully understand the argument on either sides.

To me, beekeeping is a hobby, a pastime where one should be able to relax and use the internet to obtain information for the good of the bees. I am glad to see that the 'olive branch' has been accepted on both sides and I for one look forward to learning more from informative sites such as this one.

 

[Poly Hive]

I am sure lots of info will indeed be here for your information.

PH

 

[David P]

I have to confess to quite enjoying the way the debate over research funds goes and it will be interesting to see how it all pans out. I am sure it will turn out to follow a well defined and well worn path. For what its worth this is the situation as i see it.

In the beginning there were beekeepers who kept bees just for the joy of it and of course a little honey (lots of newer beekeepers still fit into this category). Some of these branched out and became commercial size operations and to these people i believe the BBKA has very little relevance. Of the others some developed an interest in taking the hobby further and rose up through the ranks of the beekeeping fraternity.
I would like to believe that most of those on the exec still fall into this category, beekeepers who keep bees for the joy of it.
At this point someone highish up in the aggro chemical industry saw money making opportunity to use these freindly folk to promote their own products and made the relevant approaches. These approaches were favourably met after all every one likes to feel that they are important.
Now at this point something interesting happens maybe by co-incidence maybe not, the jury is out on this one atm. But bees started dying, eventually enough was whipped up to cause people to notice and notice they did. The aggro chemical approach is hey guys dont worry, we are your freinds and some in high up positions believe and defend this position. At the other end of the scale some new beekeepers came into beekeeping not because they wanted to keep bees per se but because the bees need saving. Thus we arrive at todays highly polarised positions, what is needed is for everyone to stop grinding their particular axe and look for some real solutions before the bees become every lobbyists hobby horse.


Rant over


David

 

[BKF Admin]

At this point someone highish up in the aggro chemical industry saw money making opportunity to use these freindly folk to promote their own products and made the relevant approaches.
The aggro chemical approach is hey guys dont worry, we are your freinds and some in high up positions believe and defend this position.

http://www.alliancepharma.co.uk/latestnews_137.htm

 

[David P]

and there was me avoiding naming names.

 

[victor meldrew]

I have to confess to quite enjoying the way the debate over research funds goes and it will be interesting to see how it all pans out. I am sure it will turn out to follow a well defined and well worn path. For what its worth this is the situation as i see it.

In the beginning there were beekeepers who kept bees just for the joy of it and of course a little honey (lots of newer beekeepers still fit into this category). Some of these branched out and became commercial size operations and to these people i believe the BBKA has very little relevance. Of the others some developed an interest in taking the hobby further and rose up through the ranks of the beekeeping fraternity.
I would like to believe that most of those on the exec still fall into this category, beekeepers who keep bees for the joy of it.
At this point someone highish up in the aggro chemical industry saw money making opportunity to use these freindly folk to promote their own products and made the relevant approaches. These approaches were favourably met after all every one likes to feel that they are important.
Now at this point something interesting happens maybe by co-incidence maybe not, the jury is out on this one atm. But bees started dying, eventually enough was whipped up to cause people to notice and notice they did. The aggro chemical approach is hey guys dont worry, we are your freinds and some in high up positions believe and defend this position. At the other end of the scale some new beekeepers came into beekeeping not because they wanted to keep bees per se but because the bees need saving. Thus we arrive at todays highly polarised positions, what is needed is for everyone to stop grinding their particular axe and look for some real solutions before the bees become every lobbyists hobby horse.


Rant over


David

Hardly a rant David , a perceptive observation .

John Wilkinson

 

[victor meldrew]

Hi All,

I have been reading this thread and several thoughts have come to mind.

"Wolf in Sheeps Clothing"
"Pearly Gates at the Entrance of Hell"

I'm glad I not a member of BBKA. I also get the distinct feeling John knows more about the BBKA than he writes about. He defends them admirally, with great intent but with something bigger to defend than we know, I get the feeling he a different agenda and motive then Bees.

Just an outside opinion.


Busy Bee

You are way wide of the mark young man. your attempt to rekindle a dead fire will leave you eating a cold supper !!.
You know nowt about me or my principles or where I fit in the BBKA hierarchy.
If your were as astute as you pretend, you would have sussed out my feelings on the aggro chemical connection ,after all I've stated them often enough (please read the threads properly).
Wolf in sheeps clothing ? complete rubbish. The suggestion is nothing short of s**t stirring!.
Concentrate on beekeeping , you'll glean useful information by doing so.
John Wilkinson

 

[Brosville]

In other words "don't bother your pretty little head dear, leave us to sort it out"
- that is precisely the attitude I found on the BBKA forum - keep your head down, don't ask awkward questions (particularly about chemicals and this organisation's amoral association with agrochemical companies), stay firmly "on message", don't DARE question anyone or anything to do with that subject - or even ask entirely reasonable "newbie" questions - or you'll have your posts censored, or you'll be thrown out...........
I take a very different view - question everybody and everything - if what you find out doesn't accord with your principles, query it - debate it (you can do that here without fear or favour), make up your own mind from a position of knowledge, and then act accordingly.
I want to be part of the solution, not part of the problem - adopting an ostrich posture only ends up with one thing, you get kicked in the ar*e!

 

[gavin]

No Brosville, you were kicked out of the BBKA forum because you were very rude to an American beekeeper who wasn't standing for your agrochemical rants. You were out of order and wouldn't back down or apologise.

There was widespread - almost universal - dislike of the agrochemical sponsorship policy amongst the members of that forum. Folk were getting kicked out and having their posts moved because they wouldn't remain civil on whatever topic they were posting about (or, in a couple of cases, because those in charge didn't have the brain cells to identify troublesome posts properly).

I take a very different view - question everybody and everything - if what you find out doesn't accord with your principles, query it - debate it (you can do that here without fear or favour), make up your own mind from a position of knowledge, and then act accordingly.

Wow!! Do you really mean that, now that you have become a beekeeper? That position is very far from your early posts to these fora ....