Why say NO to doing a course?

[Black Comb]

Rab, I can confirm that it is a pre-requisite to taking any modules.
They also ask for a minimum of 2 years beekeeping experience.

 

[oliver90owner]

Thanks PeterS. I thought I was right.

That certainly makes post #70 a load of twaddle in the context of the thread.

He, I imagine, he must be one of those 'jobsworth types', as I can't think of any better reason for a post like that. Trying to defend the undefendable instead of clearly addressing/clarifying the very simple line of the thread. Quite typical, I find.

RAB

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

Rab, I can confirm that it is a pre-requisite to taking any modules.
They also ask for a minimum of 2 years beekeeping experience.

Peter - think you'll find its just one year.

This thread is talking about two distinct matters, courses and the exam. They are not related. It is quite possible to do one without the other.

I found my introductory course increadably useful. Some may feel they can learn it all from books, but the course gave me a very good grounding and reference points. It has also meant that with the help of a few good books, and especially this forum, I've manage to grasp much of the basics without having to rely on a mentor - in short supply around here.

As far as the basic assessment is concerned, I think anyone reading the sylabuss would agree it covers a lot of worthy stuff. Beekeeping for beginners is often about having confidence, and one way of proving to yourself that you are doing the right things is to do the exam.

No, there is no reason why you have to do it, but most who have been keeping bees for a year and regularly read this forum will be able to answer 90% of it without further study (I needed to read up on acarine) - so its no great hardship. If it suits then do it, if not, then don't.

 

[Adam]

Thanks PeterS. I thought I was right.

That certainly makes post #70 a load of twaddle in the context of the thread.

He, I imagine, he must be one of those 'jobsworth types', as I can't think of any better reason for a post like that. Trying to defend the undefendable instead of clearly addressing/clarifying the very simple line of the thread. Quite typical, I find.

RAB

To confirm, the Basic is a pre-requisite for the Modules. I thought it was implicit in my previous answer that it was a pre-requisite but perhaps it was ambigous.

Here's my view - the Modules, understandably are aimed at beekeepers. They are not university exams where acadamic only knowledge will suffice. Therefore, a confirmation of at least a minimum knowledge of beekeeping is required in the form of a basic, practical exam.

For the benefit of the candidate, studying the initial modules, such as Honey and Hive products, diseases, etc is impossible if they do not have a basic understanding of hive inspections, position and quantity of brood etc etc.

As I said before, it is a waste of the beekeepers time (and the examiners, the invigilators, and the back office staff) to mark papers from someone who can't even manage to pass a simple 'basic' examination as that practical experience is the basis for much of their learning.

I consider some basic knowledge is essential, more for the beekeeper than anyone else.

He, I imagine, he must be one of those 'jobsworth types',

Perhaps if you saw my committment to practical, hands on training, week in, week out and encouraging students to think out the solutions to problems themselves, to equip them to make sensible, intelligent decisions when they face the barrage of situations in the first year or two of their beekeeping career - you might change your opinion of me. I teach beekeepers regardless of the desire for qualifications, and learn something myself everytime I look in a hive. We have a strict policy of no such thing as a silly question, and students are collectively in charge of any key decisions.

as I can't think of any better reason for a post like that. Trying to defend the undefendable instead of clearly addressing/clarifying the very simple line of the thread.

I've tried to provide a more comprehensive summary above, but as we don't see eye to eye on things, I guess it's unlikely to help.

Quite typical, I find.

I guess the recent bad weather in the BBKAs fault as well? <joke>



Adam

 

[Adam]

To go back to the original thread, I have found beekeepers often branch out into two groups after the first year. Some continue to attend apiary training, ask sensible questions and sometimes ring up in a panic. Over the next few years, they experience all the highs and lows of beekeeping, swarms, disease, queenless colonies, starvation etc and all the things that you need to learn to recognise and overcome. With support, they brave through these year or two, and in doing so arm themselves with a large knowledge base upon which to make sensible decisions. Around year 4, there is a marked change in their capability, as if everything suddenly "falls into place" and they become accomplished, confident beekeepers able to adapt to whatever they find. The other group often fall away from attending, perhaps believeing they have 'learnt enough' to be a beekeeper. It is this group that often are the ones that end up ringing up in an emergency as need 1:1 support or help. Every year they have the same difficulties repeated but seem to be less successful in overcoming them or don't learn from previous years. As a result, they get quite negative about beekeeping, the bees die, the swarm left etc and they never get to that level where it all becomes a pleasure again.
Perhaps they find it is more of a committment than they realised, or that the idea you become adept at 'reading the situation' is not something that arrives with just one years experience. Perhaps courses should be more realistic that nobody finishes their learning and they ought to plan to try and keep learning for a year or two, by any means.

 

[greatbritishhoney]

Maybe I'm being a little naive, but why do people assume that "going on a course" and "finding a mentor" are mutually exclusive?
Surely it's possible to go on a course, attend local assoc. apiary meetings, have a mentor, read books, use the internet. There is no need to choose a single approach.

My route into beekeeping was firstly to read a lot and then to attend a Shropshire Beekeepers course over the winter where I could ask plenty of questions about what I had read. The course was attended by about 15 other newbies and we all shared an enthusiasm for bees and a desire to find out more. There were no tests/exams/pressure - just a group of people chatting with a very experienced beekeeper.
I then went on the SBKA practical course over the summer.
Then I found a couple of mentors and now regularly attend association meetings.

Ruling out one form of learning without having experienced it is surely cutting off your nose to spite your face? I understand that some courses are better than others but never say never.

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

Maybe I'm being a little naive, but why do people assume that "going on a course" and "finding a mentor" are mutually exclusive?
Surely it's possible to go on a course, attend local assoc. apiary meetings, have a mentor, read books, use the internet. There is no need to choose a single approach.

Unless your local association is geared up with helpful souls, it unfortunately isn't always possible to find a mentor (which is why this place is a godsend).

 

[greatbritishhoney]

Unless your local association is geared up with helpful souls, it unfortunately isn't always possible to find a mentor (which is why this place is a godsend).

True

 

[victor meldrew]

Rubbish. In my view, for both the benefit of candidates and examiners, having at least have a basic understanding of beekeeping before they submit the exams saves much difficulty and disappointment. People who have no practical experience at all, can hardly write descriptive answers on artificial swarming etc. The basic is not particularly taxing and ensures that candidates have some actual experience.

Otherwise it's a waste of time for candidates, and those marking the papers.

Adam

Also it weeds out those amongst us who wish to indulge in academia with no intention of keeping bees but rather 'Trophy ' collecting .

John Wilkinson

 

[Adam]

Unless your local association is geared up with helpful souls, it unfortunately isn't always possible to find a mentor (which is why this place is a godsend).

Even when your local association is not geared up, then sometimes opportunities exist in a wider area, either by searching the newsletters of nearby associations (often available off their websites), by use of forums (e.g. posting your question or reading threads), by emailing specific people, e.g. if you want to know more about TBH, or Warre, then the Barefoot Beekeeper or Dr. David Heaf can answer questions - in effect forums become "online-mentors" which is fine up to a point, but of course some practical hands-on experience helps.
It's the people who don't want to learn, but ring you up in a panic demanding you drive over immediately I find difficult, especially when you have had a recent training session and found the same issue and resolved it as a group.

Adam

 

[Sugar Water]

I cant wait to do my beekeeping course and think it's a good idea for most people that want to know about there new hobby to get involved in. Or may be thats just me.

Or may be it's better for me to go out and get some tattoos and a pit bull and join the club!

 

[greatbritishhoney]

Also it weeds out those amongst us who wish to indulge in academia with no intention of keeping bees but rather 'Trophy ' collecting .

John Wilkinson

Serious question: Do such people exist John?
I can't really imagine anyone bothering to do a BBKA exam unless they intend to keep bees.
And, if they did, is it a problem?

Andy.

 

[For want of a better word]

Or may be it's better for me to go out and get some tattoos and a pit bull and join the club!

Sugar#honeybuns# walter

If you live in Norf London... you are probably hard enough already !

I just have a problem with having a course enforced for Beekeeping... not as if its scubadiving or riding a motorcycle or parascending, where without some basic training you could end up rater dead!
{however it seems that some who go advanced in the aforementioned too quickly also end up rather dead, all be it with loads of certificates and badges to prove their superior ability... and I am somewhat cynical!}

 

[Poly Hive]

As far as I know there is no enforcement on having a course.

As far as the dangerous hobbies you have m entioned, the issue for me is if you go badly wrong with them you are liable to hurt only yourself.

With bees it is not you that may suffer the consequences as when control is lost the scale of the problem has to be experienced to believe it. And it can be fatal for others not necessarily yourself.

Beekeeping is not childs play there are some very serious consequences to be thought about and that is one powerful reason for people to attend a course so at the least they can get a handle on what they are contemplating doing.

PH

 

[DanBee]

Compare the following two common approaches to education:

1) Those who have not been on a course or have any qualifications will confidently tell others that courses and qualifications are not needed - how do they know? Certainly not through experience, and yet these are often the same people who say they've learnt all they need to know by experience.

2) Those who have been on courses or have qualifications will generally recommend them to others. They've taken the time to listen, read, ask questions, try it out, perhaps take an assessment, and they are then willing to recommend the same path to others. Why? Because they realise that their beekeeping benefits in ways they may not even have been aware of beforehand.

Which would you listen to?

As to the Basic, it exists to give confidence to recent beginners; it's a chat in an apiary and a talk through a hive inspection, but it shows that you can handle the basic tools, knowledge, and techniques to prevent you or your bees being a nuisance. I'd say this makes it a fine pre-requisite to any further study; more than this, bees are livestock and you need to know some basic husbandry to keep them healthy and happy - otherwise you risk doing more harm than good. Where's the downside to that?

 

[For want of a better word]

As far as the dangerous hobbies you have mentioned, the issue for me is if you go badly wrong with them you are liable to hurt only yourself.

NOT dangerous... adventurous !

However it appears that insurance companies will only cover for life AND third party liability IF the scuba diver, motorcyclist or parascender has a certificate of competance.

But I do feel that the question of why some prospective beekeepers DO NOT wish to attend a basic course in bee husbandry has not been addressed.

Time, other commitments and having to listen to a (possibly) self opinionated god, drone on and on about how good he or she is at the art and try to sell you something you either do not want or need................ (most of us have been there done that !)

I think I will sit this one out now, I thank you !

 

[MuswellMetro]

I cant wait to do my beekeeping course and think it's a good idea for most people that want to know about there new hobby to get involved in. Or may be thats just me.

Or may be it's better for me to go out and get some tattoos and a pit bull and join the club!

are yu booked on a course? if so which one

my hives are near Mill Hill, if you haven't been on a taster day come and get your gloves covered in yellow propolis

 

[Brosville]

"But I do feel that the question of why some prospective beekeepers DO NOT wish to attend a basic course in bee husbandry has not been addressed" - lets try again, this time using analogy - you want to keep some chooks for eggs in your back garden, and you look at what's available in the way of "courses" in your area, bearing in mind that you want to go "free range", and are keen to be as organic as possible.
You trot along to your local club, and find that they are totally "battery cage orientated" and offer courses in their management - you dare to mention your desire to go "free range", and you have patronising arrogance and derision heaped upon you for doing so (they'll all die, it's cruel, they like their battery cages, need their beaks trimmed and must have a proper diet laced with broad-spectrum antibiotics to keep them healthy....)(This is actually pretty much what my local NFU told me some 30 odd years ago when I was contemplating starting a free range egg farm)......... SO you quite reasonably decide that although you may come out of one of their courses knowing one end of a chicken from another, and being able to recognise disease, but you'd also have spent weeks or months being indoctrinated in methods you'll never, ever use, so decide instead to glean your knowledge elsewhere, whether it be from a friendly mentors, books, online fora, or a collection of all of them.
There are good courses available which cover all forms of beekeeping, but sadly they are few and far between, so I can fully understand anyone's recalcitrance in going for many of the "mainstream" offerings, and going elsewhere to learn........

 

[For want of a better word]

with Brosville that is !

 

[greatbritishhoney]

I can understand people not wanting to take a course because of lack of availability or because the course content is unsuitable for them. What worries me though is those who go on a two day crash course and come away with a full hive to stick next to their garden shed.
I guess that's a different discussion though.