Why say NO to doing a course?

[Nellie]

I think Nellie is very lucky indeed! My personal experience with one of the local associations was the stuff of which nightmares are made -I was TOLD (amongst other things) that I was stupid to even contemplate beekeeping without chemicals, that it wasn't possible, that I would spread disease and be a menace to society if I even contemplated a TBH, and that Phil Chandler was an eco-terrorist (sic) - in the most obnoxious and patronising way
I was told that if I wanted to go on the training course that I had to became a full member of the BBKA (no option or arguing) or leave the association - I did, then and there before "losing it" and dotting the arrogant thicket running the course....

I have retained friendship with several BBKA members of other local associations of a far more liberal attitude, who confirm that the particular association I have in mind are "well known for it"......

your anger towards them is justified, but don't tar us all with the same brush.

What I want to see are proper intro courses that deal with "common threads" like disease recognition, and a proper and unbiased summary of differing hive types and management methods.......

good luck with the unbiased bit but otherwise I agree with you and is the approach that we try, though don't always succeed, to take.

I will take issue with "they're selling an ideology created around bees" - what I and many other (more) natural beekeepers do say to people when they mention the troubles that bees are having is that bees are "the canaries in our coalmine", and that it is rather difficult to put things right for them without taking into account the whole of the natural world - what affects bees affects all insects, often the availability of insects affect pollination, and bird life - and it all comes back to how we treat our environment - it's all linked, whether we like it or not........ I think it's actually impossible to view bees in isolation, because that's not how they live.........

it cuts both ways Bros. There's idiots of all persuasions in beekeeping and those intent on driving this "them and us/with us or against us" mentality chief amongst them and there's enough around at the moment. Like it or not the "natural" group (one of them at least) in our area is as blinkered and ignorant as your association apparently was in its teaching and that helps no one least of all prospective Beekeepers turning up in good faith to learn.

 

[Sugar Water]

Hmmmm is beekeeping always like this?

The phrase ''can of worms'' springs to mind.

What is a TBH?

It could be worse........ [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_hlMK7tCks[/ame]

 

[Hebeegeebee]

Nellie, Spot on!

 

[Hebeegeebee]

Unfortunately there is a very visible attempt by the BBKA to enforce a monopoly on beekeeping, whether it's by claiming to be the only voice for beekeepers, that they offer the only valid training, that you MUST have their next to useless insurance, and a new one in this area, trying to grab all the swarms which they then SELL to newbies (but only if they have been through full indoctrination and political training) - it takes someone of strong character to tell them where to go, and choose to "go it alone" - I would suggest if newbies have that strength, they're also well up to seeking out relevant knowledge and training.....

The training is given by local associations or maybe local experienced beekeepers, it doesn't have to be the BBKA!

You don't want liability insurance then?

For swarms, the BBKA suggests clipping queens so you don't get them. Cruel? No. I cut my toe-nails and it doesn't hurt. What do you do with yours?

What about the alternative view of top-bar hives as swarm generators? Then the ogres at the local association clear up the mess by collecting them?

 

[Hebeegeebee]

Hmmmm is beekeeping always like this?

The phrase ''can of worms'' springs to mind.

What is a TBH?

It could be worse........ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_hlMK7tCks

No it doesn't have to be like this. Beekeeping is fine; It's those with an agenda that cause the problems!


He's not the messiah he's a very naughty boy!

 

[Chris Luck]

No it doesn't have to be like this. Beekeeping is fine; It's those with an agenda that cause the problems!

I couldn't agree more, in fact I've said so myself on this forum in the past.

Chris

 

[victor meldrew]

The training is given by local associations or maybe local experienced beekeepers, it doesn't have to be the BBKA!

You don't want liability insurance then?

For swarms, the BBKA suggests clipping queens so you don't get them. Cruel? No. I cut my toe-nails and it doesn't hurt. What do you do with yours?

What about the alternative view of top-bar hives as swarm generators? Then the ogres at the local association clear up the mess by collecting them?

John Wilkinson

 

[Adam]

There is also the inescapable fact that in almost all clubs, if you sign up for "basic training" then they demand you become a full member of the BBKA, and in many clubs it is far easier to "toe the line" than dare to be different.

In our club, the winter training course is open to all comers, no need to join the club. We believe people should come along and learn about bees and beekeeping, then decide if they want to become a beekeeper. A minor, but regular proportion actually just want to learn more about apiculture, but not become beekeepers. After that, in the spring we offer a month of practical training sessions and only then, if they like what they have experienced, do we get them to join. So they have had a good opportunity to see if they like what we are doing. Clearly at some point we want people to join. Brosville does sound like he got a rather more opinionated club but my experience is that they aren't all like that - the exception rather than the rule?
We had a new beekeeper that wanted to keep bees in a Warre, and as a hive tutor, although we didn't have a Warre, I did some comprehensive research and tried as part of teaching on a National, what might be similar on a Warre, e.g. studying the landing board etc, which is useful for any beekeeper, so being as inclusive as I could be at short notice.

Adam

 

[Chris Luck]

The type of hive in some ways makes little difference, or at any rate it doesn't have to and I think this needs to be clear, so saying TBH or Warré as if it means something "other" isn't at all precise, it's how they are managed that counts. This tends to be the contentious bit.

1. Warré can, and often are, operated with frames and can be used "bottom up", it isn't necessary to start at the top and build down.

2. TBH can also be used with a queen excluder, supers and "built up".

3. Both can be inspected, treated, controlled and manipulated as much as any other hive.

Chris

 

[Mymwood]

Just coming to the end of a course with Gwent Beekeepers association. Mixed group of newbies, some with bees, most thinking of getting them. All benefited greatly. The course was friendly, informal and very informative. The teachers were very patient, very helpful and not at all pretentious or full of themselves in any way. Our main tutor gave up a great deal of his personal time for our benefit, something that we greatly appreciated. With my first colonies about to arrive I feel that they will have a much improved chance of surviving their first year now that I have learned my first steps. There was no exam, no test, just learning in a friendly, welcoming environment. Several of us have become friends, a fringe benefit to a shared interest. I thoroughly recommend it.

 

[DanBee]

Unfortunately there is a very visible attempt by the BBKA to enforce a monopoly on beekeeping, whether it's by claiming to be the only voice for beekeepers, that they offer the only valid training, that you MUST have their next to useless insurance, and a new one in this area, trying to grab all the swarms which they then SELL to newbies (but only if they have been through full indoctrination and political training) - it takes someone of strong character to tell them where to go, and choose to "go it alone" - I would suggest if newbies have that strength, they're also well up to seeking out relevant knowledge and training.....

What a perverse view you have of the world.

 

[DanBee]

You get nothing for standing outside the system and whinging about how unfair it is.

It would appear some get a lot of satisfaction from taking that stance!

 

[Nellie]

The type of hive in some ways makes little difference, or at any rate it doesn't have to and I think this needs to be clear, so saying TBH or Warré as if it means something "other" isn't at all precise, it's how they are managed that counts. This tends to be the contentious bit.

1. Warré can, and often are, operated with frames and can be used "bottom up", it isn't necessary to start at the top and build down.

2. TBH can also be used with a queen excluder, supers and "built up".

3. Both can be inspected, treated, controlled and manipulated as much as any other hive.

Chris

Funnily enough that tends to be the point I make. It's a box, that bees live in. At the end of the day they all do pretty much the same thing with minor variations.

How you manage the bees living in that box, that's where it starts to get interesting.

 

[louiseww]

I am in my third year and learned for a year with the local group before getting bees, I still attend meetings, but am choosy about which ones and there is always someone there to help if I need it.
I understand those who don't want tests and exams - I have had my fill of those and resisted doing the BBKA exams. However there is nothing quite like hands on experience to learn and if they are someone elses bees then no harm is going to be done.
Louise

 

[busybee53]

I've always been keen on bees and used to play with them when small. All my life people have been trying to put me off being involved with bees, including my uncle who kept them. 2 years ago they came to me on my allotment plot and I took it as a sign. I had to get in touch with my local BKA to get them removed as they were in they way of other plot holders. Although I wanted to keep them the BKA person told me I would need to go on a course the following year.

I went on the course and was dissapointed to find that a lot of it was what I had already learned from books. The hands on bit was good but, partly due to the weather, there was not enough of it. Then I found out that one of the people who was helping on the course had only begun beekeeping himself the year before. He had not been on the course, he just got bees and kept on asking the BKA people questions. He got practical experience that way. Wish I'd done it too. The best thing about the course was being able to contact the people who are always helpful when I have questions. It's what is not in the books and the interpretation of the books by someone with experience that is most valuable I find. No wonder people are not keen on courses. And exams are worse.

 

[Blue Spinnaker]

The best thing about the course was being able to contact the people who are always helpful when I have questions. It's what is not in the books and the interpretation of the books by someone with experience that is most valuable I find. No wonder people are not keen on courses. And exams are worse.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

 

[Russel]

Just coming to the end of a course with Gwent Beekeepers association. Mixed group of newbies, some with bees, most thinking of getting them. All benefited greatly. The course was friendly, informal and very informative. The teachers were very patient, very helpful and not at all pretentious or full of themselves in any way. Our main tutor gave up a great deal of his personal time for our benefit, something that we greatly appreciated. With my first colonies about to arrive I feel that they will have a much improved chance of surviving their first year now that I have learned my first steps. There was no exam, no test, just learning in a friendly, welcoming environment. Several of us have become friends, a fringe benefit to a shared interest. I thoroughly recommend it.

Martyn, it would appear that our little group are the fortunate few belonging to the Gwent BKA!
For the princely sums of £25 bka and £15 course fees we've had 7 classroom sessions, 10 practicals at 4+(?) apiaries, kit building, nosema night bee grinders, involved us in the queen rearing project, acquired local knowledge that's not in the books, lots of free tea and bickies, they trust me to cut the assoc' apiary grass, made several friends and no tests to boot.

Seems Gwent is the exception, lucky we don't live elsewhere

See you Sat, don't spend to much at H o W.

Russ.

 

[nickyjay]

I did the LBKA introduction course a month or so ago. It was a weekend course which covered the basics, frame building and some apiary time. I found it very useful, reinforcing what i had read plus introduced new topics for further research. For me the best part of it was actually meeting lots of people from the area who actually keep bees and being offered a mentor. Everyone was very friendly and very unique with their own (sometimes unofficial) views. What you chose to take on board or not, is up to you and would recommend it for anyone starting out.
N

 

[MuswellMetro]

Many people, myself included, have had a gutsfull of formal education, set syllabus', exams etc. and are wary of commities, associations and self important know-it-alls who tend to come to the fore in local bka's

God, how did you know, that's identical to Hertfordshire BKA, i can stand them ,self opinionated ******** but i am still an affiliated member through my association