Which Queen Type Best for Beginner?

[Codford]

This will be my first year keeping bees and I have a choice of queen type with my two 14x12, 6 frame nucs: Carniolan, Buckfast, Ligustica or Mellifera Mellifera.

Key concerns are swarming and ease of handling; prepared to experiment with a different type in each hive, but I sense I ought to be keeping things simple to start with?

Over to the collective wisdom of the Forum - as always, much appreciated!

 

[Briarfield]

Local mongrels.

They are adapted for your area.

Not kept carniolans. But have Colette their swarms.

I would, from your list, have AMm or ligustica.


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[Millet]

Get a colony and find out for your self and see how they go.
Then twist on next year..

 

[MartinL]

Get a colony and find out for your self and see how they go.
Then twist on next year..

Everyone on here will have their personal preference, I'd go for whatever you can get and learn from there!
Don't believe everything you're told from self proclaimed experts.

What you do is only part of the overall factors that could all have a significant affect on your hobby.

 

[kighill]

Have a play with some Buckfast it is easier to learn and more enjoyable with a gentle strain of bee. Once you have a year or two under your belt you can try the local types if you feel it may benefit you.
I personally like Buckfast queens but not having any control over who the virgins mate with (my area is saturated with other beekeeper) I have to buy in new queens on occasion.

 

[Quis Custodiet]

I recommend that you get Buckfast bees. They are extremely docile and very productive and are likely to outperform other types.
But it is of course entirely your decision on what type of bee to have, make it an informed decision!

 

[Itchy]

Local mongrels

 

[REDWOOD]

Does not really matter but what you dont want is over aggressive bees which will give you dozens of stings and follow you everywhere, that will surely put you off beekeeping
Generally buckfast and Carniolan, AMM (from the correct source) can be just as good.
Whatever you decide make sure they come from a good bee breeder.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

This will be my first year keeping bees and I have a choice of queen type with my two 14x12, 6 frame nucs: Carniolan, Buckfast, Ligustica or Mellifera Mellifera.

Key concerns are swarming and ease of handling; prepared to experiment with a different type in each hive, but I sense I ought to be keeping things simple to start with?

Over to the collective wisdom of the Forum - as always, much appreciated!

First of all congratulations in having the wisdom to start with a large brood box.
I started with Buckfast type and found them easy to handle. I've still got their genes in there somewhere but obviously diluted through open matings with the boys in my locality.
I've not had the aggression reported by some regarding subsequent offspring but if I did I would requeen from a calmer hive in my own apiary.

 

[colinc]

I started last year with a nuc of Buckfasts on nationals. I made the mistake of buying a modified national no longer available (Mann Lake) but from 5 frames in April we had a big prime swarm in June. They can be prolific. We caught our own swarm the queen was marked and we saw the swarm leave so we're lucky.
I assumed wrongly that they were done but then we also had a cast swarm a couple weeks later which we caught.
Not a great start but all fun learning (apart from removing the prime swarm from under my kitchen roof). What I would say is make sure you have support I didn't, and it gets streasful. The original queen has a lovely calm nature, her daughter colony left behind is lovely and calm too (open mated) but the cast colony daughter got defensive, she was forced to abdicate and her colony merged which immediately calmed them down.
This year they are on double national broods to give more space and are doing well you have larger frames so enjoy it is great fun to just sit and watch your hives.

As stated above in Wiltshire you should be good whichever queen you choose just source from a reputable/recommended breeder or within your BBKA association.


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[For want of a better word]

Join your local BKA
FIND OUR WHAT THE MORE EXPERIENCED BEEKEEPERS ARE KEEPING IN YOUR AREA
Try to buy a nuc of local and adapted bees
Please do not import bees/queens etc... although by making this request all of the importers will come out from under the bridge and skew your thread as they have done with every other asking a similar question,

As for 14 x 12 ... seems to be a personal choice... I have some but now mostly use standard Hoffman as that is the most common type used hereabouts.

Mytteb da

 

[Little John]

Does not really matter but what you dont want is over aggressive bees which will give you dozens of stings and follow you everywhere, that will surely put you off beekeeping
Generally buckfast and Carniolan, AMM (from the correct source) can be just as good.
Whatever you decide make sure they come from a good bee breeder.

I agree wholeheartedly with the above philosophy. In practice however, you may discover that there is something of a problem in establishing exactly who is a good bee breeder, as self-praise can never be a good recommendation. Likewise, the recommendations of a few highly zealous and annoyingly over-vocal individuals who subscribe to a particular breed-type also cannot be relied upon.

So how is a person to choose ? My advice is to visit the breeder if at all possible, and see for yourself first-hand the behaviour of the bees being kept. But don't focus exclusively on the nucs - they are almost always good-natured at that size.

There are several good known sources of Buckfast, and Carnies of guaranteed behaviour can always be imported direct from Slovenia. Sources of good Mongrels and AMM are less certain, as owners can so easily become accustomed to - and thus 'blinkered' - regarding their negative qualities.
LJ

 

[Beefriendly]

although by making this request all of the importers will come out from under the bridge

You would get much less dissent towards your posts if you stopped adding inflammatory asides into them. It's as though you are deliberately seeking a reaction....which is the sign of a true internet Troll....now chop chop.....back under your greasy Tamar bridge before the sun gets up......

To the OP, try whatever type of bee suits you but gentle calm is the priority.
Buckfast, Italians and Carniolan are good but exceedingly prolific which can lead to swarming problems early on if they don't get enough space.
Perhaps try pure Amm's queens? From the right source (be careful here), they are quiet and calm and not as prolific. But nice and easy to work and get your confidence up with.
And take note that the person slating imports as bad also keeps Italian bees that were obviously imported.

 

[Little John]

As for 14 x 12 ... seems to be a personal choice... I have some but now mostly use standard Hoffman as that is the most common type used hereabouts.

Hoffman is a method of self-spacing frames, NOT a box size.

This is the beginners forum.
LJ

 

[Swarm]

Back on track .........
I would advise the OP to try to obtain bees from a good, local beekeeper. That way you will just increase the local gene pool. Buying in a cheap, early nuc from abroad simply adds another ingredient to the gene pool. In other words, you've just messed it up for everyone else. If your local beekeepers are the kind who buy in queens and/or nucs then it really doesn't matter what you do.

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=39174
Have a listen to what Michael Palmer has to say about this in the above link, the guy makes total sense.

 

[Little John]

Back on track .........

I hadn't noticed any deviation at all from the OP's request - except for one correction I've just made. I would hope that such a minor event doesn't warrant being flagged up as substantial thread drift.
LJ

 

[B+.]

So how is a person to choose ? My advice is to visit the breeder if at all possible, and see for yourself first-hand the behaviour of the bees being kept. But don't focus exclusively on the nucs - they are almost always good-natured at that size.

One thing I have noticed is that bees know which are the better queens and drift to the mating nucs with the better queens in. If you have a free choice, always choose the queen with the most bees in.

 

[user 6228]

a small colony of docile bees

docile bees come in all colours

 

[Quis Custodiet]

a small colony of docile bees

docile bees come in all colours

Many, perhaps most beekeepers have never seen truly docile bees. Carniolans are very docile, so are Caucasians and also Buckfast, the latter possibly being the most docile of all. So yes, colour is not necessarily an indicator of temperament.

 

[Little John]

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=39174
Have a listen to what Michael Palmer has to say about this in the above link, the guy makes total sense.

Yes, he does (one of my favourite speakers on bee issues) - but there is a bias there, nevertheless - for the concept of THE Local Bees, as if they are some kind of pre-determined entity (which many here appear to believe) - is one of the biggest myths in beekeeping.

Local bees are created/developed largely by beekeepers within an area, and in Michael Palmer's area, what exists are Mike Palmer's 'local bees' - for he has developed that strain, and quite understandably is miffed should other bees be brought into the area in which he operates. But his 'local bees' haven't always existed as such - they have resulted as the consequence of his selective work - and as the result of his importations - by bringing in a Carniolan strain at some point (as he describes his bees as "Carnie mutts"), as well as bees from Russia, and those with VSH characteristics.

So - he has imported bees in order to create 'local bees' and is now saying (understandably) for others to rear local queens in order to keep such local bees.

So it would appear that we have something of a contradiction here: importation at some point is considered good/necessary in order to create a desirable (undefined) strain of bee, with occasional imports as necessary in order to keep the gene pool healthy - but when that strain has become established, the advice is then for others to only raise the relatively newly-generated 'local bees'.

I suppose the question then becomes "who determines what characteristics an area's 'local bees' are to have ?"
LJ