Which Queen Type Best for Beginner?

[B+.]

So - he has imported bees in order to create 'local bees' and is now saying (understandably) for others to rear local queens in order to keep such local bees.

So it would appear that we have something of a contradiction here: importation at some point is considered good/necessary in order to create a desirable (undefined) strain of bee, with occasional imports as necessary in order to keep the gene pool healthy - but when that strain has become established, the advice is then for others to only raise the relatively newly-generated 'local bees'.

I suppose the question then becomes "who determines what characteristics an area's 'local bees' are to have ?"
LJ

Quite right. However, you have to remember that America has no native bee so everything they have was imported at some point.

 

[Swarm]

That's ok then, just grab a nuc from anywhere.

 

[user 6228]

....
I suppose the question then becomes "who determines what characteristics an area's 'local bees' are to have ?"
LJ

The obvious answer is the bees ... but then even a colony in a reasonably diverse honeybee area is not genetically homogeneous

 

[Quis Custodiet]

Local bees / local mongrels / feral bees, call them what you will, breed for survival - nature selects the fittest for that purpose. Properly managed and carefully selected and bred colonies are honey producers. There is a vast difference between the two.

 

[MartinL]

You would get much less dissent towards your posts if you stopped adding inflammatory asides into them. .....

But they are only "Inflammatory" to the volatile?

 

[For want of a better word]

Local bees / local mongrels / feral bees, call them what you will, breed for survival - nature selects the fittest for that purpose. Properly managed and carefully selected and bred colonies are honey producers. There is a vast difference between the two.

Thereby lies the difference betwixt the Native population.. that is desparately needed for to preserve the genetic diversity and pure genepool in nature...

and the Factory farmed genetically engineered animal that only can survive with the aid of mans constant manipulation, and is raised for mans specific desire for, beef, milk, cheese, lean pork, bacon,eggs, and even honey***

***Possible exception with honey as IMOLE the Natives produce a crop when the Factory bees fail and eat the lot!


Some it seems get very passionate about their factory farmed bees... and others for their ( often ridiculed) passion to maintain the native stock for future generations... the difference between the reductionist and holistic approach to keeping bees?

So the answer to the OP could be select the type that suits your own needs... but give a bit of consideration for the beekeeper on the other side of the fence.

Myttin da

 

[Quis Custodiet]

But they are only "Inflammatory" to the volatile?

But who is it that becomes volatile? Not Beefriendly, not I and not those who post here in support of bees which are not AMM!

 

[B+.]

Factory farmed genetically engineered animal that only can survive with the aid of mans constant manipulation, and is raised for mans specific desire for, beef, milk, cheese, lean pork, bacon,eggs, and even honey

What tosh!

 

[Swarm]

What tosh!

How long will your Carnica bees remain Carnica bees without your II queens?

 

[Swarm]

But who is it that becomes volatile? Not Beefriendly, not I and not those who post here in support of bees which are not AMM!

Who is it that never misses an opportunity?

 

[B+.]

How long will your Carnica bees remain Carnica bees without your II queens?

This sort of approach assumes that we are all content with mongrel bees that produce 50lbs of honey (in a good year), swarm at least once a year and sting the dickens out of you.
I wont be painted as the villain for improving my bees. Isn't this what we should all aspire to?

Actually, its a stupid question. The issue isn't how long a race remains pure, because the same would happen to any bee allowed to open mate without control. The issue is whether you use modern knowledge and techniques to improve bees, or, whether you accept swarmy, stinging bees that produce little, or no, honey.

 

[For want of a better word]

This sort of approach assumes that we are all content with mongrel bees that produce 50lbs of honey (in a good year), swarm at least once a year and sting the dickens out of you.
I wont be painted as the villain for improving my bees. Isn't this what we should all aspire to?

Actually, its a stupid question. The issue isn't how long a race remains pure, because the same would happen to any bee allowed to open mate without control. The issue is whether you use modern knowledge and techniques to improve bees, or, whether you accept swarmy, stinging bees that produce little, or no, honey.

My aspirations... but doing it with Amm not Amc

Yeghes da

 

[Swarm]

This sort of approach assumes that we are all content with mongrel bees that produce 50lbs of honey (in a good year), swarm at least once a year and sting the dickens out of you.
I wont be painted as the villain for improving my bees. Isn't this what we should all aspire to?

I wasn't painting you as a villain, it was you who scoffed at Hoppit's post.

I would consider that 50lbs of honey as not a very good year plus I don't have a sugar bill.

Edit: You added the last bit and yes purity has been messed up by man. We could use this knowledge and modern techniques to improve AMM rather than a foreign bee.

 

[B+.]

My aspirations... but doing it with Amm not Amc

Its the constant judgemental tone of your posts that provoke a response. You are free to raise whatever bee your like...but...allow others the same freedom to choose. The last time I checked, this was still a democracy

 

[For want of a better word]

Its the constant judgemental tone of your posts that provoke a response. You are free to raise whatever bee your like...but...allow others the same freedom to choose. The last time I checked, this was still a democracy

B+
I sit happily on the fence as I keep Amm and Aml and have in the past kept most of the other sub species of honey bee available in the UK.

I have no problem with your approach to keeping bees at all... in fact practice many of your techniques myself.

I do however find that the derogatory postings from some seem to be merely to be antagonistic towards others... although I suspect that there is some commercial implications from those who import bees for sale.

I thought this was the Beekeeping Forum?

 

[Anduril]

I have the local mongrels and Buckfast, I keep the Buckfast at a separate apiary. Last year I had replaced the Buckfast with mongrels and when the lady mowed the lawn she got stung ever time. Changing back to Buckfast, she doesn't get stung.
Talking to a nearby commercial beekeeper who used to sell Buckfast, when they had the Hawaiian Buckfast, they could go right up to the hives unsuited without getting stung.
I don't change the queen every year as I can usually keep the queen between 3 - 4 years with swarm control methods.

 

[REDWOOD]

I can't tell you if my dark bees (no orange stripes) are AMM but they fair just as good as, if not better than most, no difference in honey quantity. Interesting observation: they will collect different pollen to the others and their cappings are always pure white and harder to remove

 

[B+.]

I do however find that the derogatory postings from some seem to be merely to be antagonistic towards others... although I suspect that there is some commercial implications from those who import bees for sale.

I thought this was the Beekeeping Forum?

Yes. It cuts both ways.

Personally, I am committed to the bee breeding side of things. I don't import bees for sale although I do sell a few open mated queens to help pay the bills. Life is too short for all of this bickering.

 

[user 6228]

I have the local mongrels and Buckfast, I keep the Buckfast at a separate apiary. Last year I had replaced the Buckfast with mongrels and when the lady mowed the lawn she got stung ever time. Changing back to Buckfast, she doesn't get stung.
Talking to a nearby commercial beekeeper who used to sell Buckfast, when they had the Hawaiian Buckfast, they could go right up to the hives unsuited without getting stung.
I don't change the queen every year as I can usually keep the queen between 3 - 4 years with swarm control methods.

I can go up to our " i dont know what because they flew into the garden" without a suit, some are dark some are more yellow...
we have had buckfast which were the same docility . We have had only had one nasty in 6 years and that was a swarm we collected.
Apart from the ocasional mad bee they have all been rather similarly docile. Is it us?
We dont go into the hives unless its is really quite warm outside (after a couple of hives indicated displeasure at being disturbed at around 15C).

 

[Beefriendly]

We could use this knowledge and modern techniques to improve AMM rather than a foreign bee.

Nothing wrong with improving a species at all. Let me know when Amm attain the same levels of honey production and fecundity as the "exotics" and I'll use nothing else. I currently have a couple of hives of Amm's and know their strengths and limitations. For my own needs they don't tick the honey monster bracket. Whilst honey production is not everyone's cup of tea, no-one is being forced into using a honey monster strain.
Their are many different types of bees available to the hobbyists all with different characteristics, so there is something to suit anyone's requirements. Whatever they may be.
Currently I can see no reason why I shouldn't take full advantage of what is currently available. So I do.