Which Queen Type Best for Beginner?

[Bosleeu]

I have kept most types of bees, and settled with Buckfast. For me they are simply the easiest bees to keep. Very little swarming, docile, and brings in a large crop. No real downside for me so I will likely stick with them.

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[Fritillary]

I have kept most types of bees, and settled with Buckfast. For me they are simply the easiest bees to keep. Very little swarming, docile, and brings in a large crop. No real downside for me so I will likely stick with them.

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Let us know when you find which are the easiest, most docile and productive beekeepers.

 

[B+.]

Let us know when you find which are the easiest, most docile and productive beekeepers.

I've yet to find a docile or productive beekeeper

 

[Anduril]

I can go up to our " i dont know what because they flew into the garden" without a suit, some are dark some are more yellow...
we have had buckfast which were the same docility . We have had only had one nasty in 6 years and that was a swarm we collected.
Apart from the ocasional mad bee they have all been rather similarly docile. Is it us?
We dont go into the hives unless its is really quite warm outside (after a couple of hives indicated displeasure at being disturbed at around 15C).

Gardening and mowing are fine with Buckfast, mongrels were a pain when gardening and mowing. Mowing produces vibrations that they didn't like. At another apiary I had the Welsh black, they were PITA, I had to move them to a farm apiary. The mongrels I have, 30% are docile, the other 70% range from nervous on the comb to covering me and following. This year I'll be replacing them with queens from the 30%.

 

[colinc]

I've yet to find a docile or productive beekeeper

Be careful which get selected for breeding and your attempts at improvement may prove fruitless.


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[B+.]

Be careful which get selected for breeding and your attempts at improvement may prove fruitless.


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Are you suggesting that beekeepers may be propagated from cuttings?

 

[colinc]

Are you suggesting that beekeepers may be propagated from cuttings?

Above the knee or below the neck??? Worth a try...:..::


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[mbc]

Gardening and mowing are fine with Buckfast, mongrels were a pain when gardening and mowing. Mowing produces vibrations that they didn't like. At another apiary I had the Welsh black, they were PITA, I had to move them to a farm apiary. The mongrels I have, 30% are docile, the other 70% range from nervous on the comb to covering me and following. This year I'll be replacing them with queens from the 30%.

Many "welsh blacks " are in truth carnies crossed with whatever drones are in the air. They can be very productive but often get a bit nasty when swarming/queenless or afterwards when they're at the second cross. Don't paint all "welsh blacks" with the same brush if you've had a bad experience with these imposters.

 

[Anduril]

Many "welsh blacks " are in truth carnies crossed with whatever drones are in the air. They can be very productive but often get a bit nasty when swarming/queenless or afterwards when they're at the second cross. Don't paint all "welsh blacks" with the same brush if you've had a bad experience with these imposters.

For me they were manageable, just not suited to the apiary location.

 

[B+.]

Many "welsh blacks " are in truth carnies crossed with whatever drones are in the air. They can be very productive but often get a bit nasty when swarming/queenless or afterwards when they're at the second cross. Don't paint all "welsh blacks" with the same brush if you've had a bad experience with these imposters.

I don't get it. One minute, you are telling people that these are the bees they should keep, the next, you're saying that they are not representative of what they should be. Isn't this just advocating the use of mongrels?

 

[mbc]

I don't get it. One minute, you are telling people that these are the bees they should keep, the next, you're saying that they are not representative of what they should be. Isn't this just advocating the use of mongrels?

Many bees are badged as "welsh blacks" because they are dark in colour and are in Wales, this doesn't make them our indigenous bee, it's a case of misrepresentation and isnt helpful to the cause of genuine native bees.
Keep up B+!
Edit: I've never gone and told people these are the bees they should keep, I'll fight the natives' corner but I won't ram them in your hives!

 

[For want of a better word]

50 posts and 1000 hits......and Admin has not closed it down!

I expect some will have felt a bit bruised by some of the more unhelpfull, rude and un called for comments........ as postees grind their axes!

Yeghes da

 

[B+.]

Many bees are badged as "welsh blacks" because they are dark in colour and are in Wales, this doesn't make them our indigenous bee, it's a case of misrepresentation and isnt helpful to the cause of genuine native bees.

So, you're saying that the question is one of authenticity. How does the average beekeeper know what they have?

 

[Poly Hive]

Well spent yesterday discussing this very issue and the answer is you can very easily breed for wing measurements which is rather unhelpful.

However this was stated by a Dr who works in DNA. It is now very much affordable at £14 a go so getting it done is now in the realm of us the hands on people.

Apparently some in a certain organisation are3 unwilling to accept the wing breeding issue.... sand and large birds come to mind....LOL

PH

 

[For want of a better word]

Well spent yesterday discussing this very issue and the answer is you can very easily breed for wing measurements which is rather unhelpful.

However this was stated by a Dr who works in DNA. It is now very much affordable at £14 a go so getting it done is now in the realm of us the hands on people.

Apparently some in a certain organisation are3 unwilling to accept the wing breeding issue.... sand and large birds come to mind....LOL

PH

Wing morphometry is a reasonable indicator when looking at Amm with a distinctive negative discoidal shift... other species wing morphometry is not so specific,, especially when dealing with the hybridisation that is occurring between Aml and Amc... few are now "pure" in fact some say there are no pure Carnica extant... but that would be deemed to be an inflammatory statement untill someone starts a comprehensive DNA ( mt and nuclear) screening programme.... as is in full swing with Amm.


Where can we get a full DNA profile for £14? the Swiss lab full DNA analyses is £160!

Yeghes da

 

[Poly Hive]

The where was not mentioned but that was the price quoted.

Morphometry was stated to be useful as you say, to a point but only to that point it is definitely not definitive.

Also what was said was once pure DNA is crossed it stays crossed for ever seemingly. It can be bred back to pretty pure but apparently never to the point of complete purity.

PH

 

[B+.]

The where was not mentioned but that was the price quoted.

Morphometry was stated to be useful as you say, to a point but only to that point it is definitely not definitive.

Also what was said was once pure DNA is crossed it stays crossed for ever seemingly. It can be bred back to pretty pure but apparently never to the point of complete purity.

PH

My point was meant to be more inclusive than that. A DNA check is a bit like an MOT on your car: it is correct at the time of testing - for the individual tested. However, if you buy a queen on the strength of the test results, what guarantee do you have that the test relates to the queen you bought. The whole area of provenance is impossible to control. The only way that I can see you could be sure is if you were able to perform your own test, but, this would be after a sale has taken place.

At the end of the day, it all comes down to taking someones word for it.

 

[For want of a better word]

At the end of the day, it all comes down to taking someones word for it.

Yep... like we did with BREXIT !!!

Yeghes da

 

[Beefriendly]

Wing morphometry is a reasonable indicator when looking at Amm

Wing morphometery was meant to be used (and was) for distinguishing crosses of Amms with Carniolans/Italians from Amms...in particular between Carniolans and Amms which can have very similar colouration, it told you if they were a hybrid. It was never meant to be used to indicated the degree of Ammness. As PH has already said you can selectively breed for "improved" negative discoidal shifts etc. Doesn't make an Amm out of a sows ear.

 

[Beefriendly]

Don't paint all "welsh blacks" with the same brush if you've had a bad experience with these imposters.

I've noticed that local bees in different areas exhibit different degrees of aggression (or defensiveness). Some areas seem to produce relatively gentle locals, Teesside, Harrogate and Doncaster areas come to mind. Whereas further North, Richmond area and just south of Teesside they are very feisty. I expect these variations may be true for different areas in Wales and the rest of the UK.
So as mbc says you shouldn't judge all of them as being of similar temperament, they vary. I think Beowulf Cooper noted that aggression of local bees increases as you travel West to East (or was it vice versa). Br Adam noted a increase in aggression with French Amm's as you went south to North.
So if you live in area with gentle locals, great you are half way there; if those are the bees you wish to keep.
In my area I tried, unsuccessfully, to breed gentle locals for several years. In the end I gave up. I had hives that gave moderate yields of honey (in comparison to today's designer bees) but were a nightmare to work. Pinging off veils as soon as hive opened, inveterate followers for long distances.
I could get gentle queens from outside my immediate region but next generation they were back to bad. So I took a different approach...or shall we say my local bees forced to do so, or become a masochist.