Which breed of queen? British black, Welsh black, Buckfast

[jackstraw]

I have a queen who is two years old and I am intending to replace her shortly.
Standard requirements are the golden trinity - good foragers, gentle nature and over-winter well.

I could of course get a local mongrel but I am quite happy to pay a little extra to get the best available.

I would want a pre-mated queen so that the gene line of her offspring is known and so that she is ready to start laying straight-away
I have heard that Buckfast are great to start but that 2nd and 3rd generation are quite feisty. Is that the same for the British Black or Welsh Black? Are there other differences between them I should be taking into account

I only have two colonies with no intention to expand and so if needs be I am happy to buy replacement Buckfast queens every autumn and so the 2nd/3rd generation problem needn't be a deal breaker

If you were in a similar situation what would you go for?

 

[clv101]

Are you planning to replace her for any reason other than being two years old?

 

[scuttlefish]

Local mongrels work for me.

 

[Sandbee79]

Please find a local queen. All thats gonna happen if you buy a Buckfast is that next year you'll be in the same position and worse so will some of your neighbouring beekeepers. These mixed genetics are not working and they re more likely to die or need treatments to get them to survive. Go local or breed your own.

 

[farbee]

Here we go again.

 

[madasafish]

My experience of local mongrels is that they are worthy only of the petrol treatment.

 

[Stiffy]

I have a queen who is two years old and I am intending to replace her shortly.
Standard requirements are the golden trinity - good foragers, gentle nature and over-winter well.

I could of course get a local mongrel but I am quite happy to pay a little extra to get the best available.

I would want a pre-mated queen so that the gene line of her offspring is known and so that she is ready to start laying straight-away
I have heard that Buckfast are great to start but that 2nd and 3rd generation are quite feisty. Is that the same for the British Black or Welsh Black? Are there other differences between them I should be taking into account

I only have two colonies with no intention to expand and so if needs be I am happy to buy replacement Buckfast queens every autumn and so the 2nd/3rd generation problem needn't be a deal breaker

If you were in a similar situation what would you go for?

I am reluctant to say anything about any other strains but am sure the worlds expert on different races of bees will be on here soon to expound his views.

FWIW
I have some fourth generation Buckfast queens and they are just as good as the original stock but I do buy breeder queens from a good Buckfast breeder. So I wouldn't necessarily say that all produce bad bees and believe the same applies to whatever strain you get , if there are bad drones around, you stand a chance of them influencing the mating and producing nasty bees.

Have fun
S

PS if you want to know were I get my Buckfast from PM me

 

[jp19sqn]

Take the Buckfast route!

I have switched this year and the pleasantness of my bees is stark when compared to the local rubbish I was struggling with. As long as you are responsible and nip any tendency for defensiveness. Any open mating can result in testy behaviour, regardless of strain, the trick is re-queening quickly. On this occasion everyone's opinion will be correct for them, I can only say how much my beekeeping has changed now I have bees with better genetics. More smiles, more honey, fewer stings.....Win!

 

[For want of a better word]

If you want a good tempered colony that will give you a decent honey crop... try a New Zealand Italian.. a man near Brighton up your end of the world can supply?
I have had a queen of that ilk productive for 4 years... which is similar to out local Amm in longevity and productivity.
I have no idea what so called buckfast bees are... probably yet another one of those beekeeping myths... so loved by some who post here!!

 

[sipa]

Ignore the rest, get the best.... a Buckfast. you won't be disappointed.

But get one from a well known and respected supplier, PM Me.

 

[REDWOOD]

Stuff the neighbours they don't ask me when they introduce stingy black bees

 

[PBee]

...I have no idea what so called buckfast bees are... probably yet another one of those beekeeping myths... so loved by some who post here!!

The Buckfast name should have been retired with Brother Adam. Hybrids require a lot of work to maintain, but can be worth the bother for ease and speed of working in all weathers etc. Otherwise, it is probably better to stick to A.m.m.(ish) bees.

 

[beekeeping4you]

I have no idea what so called buckfast bees are... probably yet another one of those beekeeping myths... so loved by some who post here!!

Look at this:

http://perso.fundp.ac.be/~jvandyck/homage/elver/index.html

http://www.beekeeping.ie/html/f_a_q.html

 

[Erichalfbee]

I have Buckies.
Good foragers. One colony filled me a super in four days.
One lot...second generation....can be a little overwhelming when I open up; not so many stings but lots of bees on the top bars and a few pingers.
I have a third generation cooking so will have to wait and see.

 

[ultreen1]

I have buckfasts and a Italian cross and both those blow my local mongrel caught swarms out of the water!
I'm not wasting my time next season taking mongrel queens thro winter just for them to swarm even after an AS! They don't touch the super just fill the brood box with honey and try to swarm again!

 

[scuttlefish]

My experience of local mongrels is that they are worthy only of the petrol treatment.

In your locality, maybe. Mine are (mostly) docile and this year yielded four-five supers per (full year) hive.

I'm sure the characteristics of local Apis mellifera hibrida anywhere will differ though.

 

[For want of a better word]

The Buckfast name should have been retired with Brother Adam. Hybrids require a lot of work to maintain, but can be worth the bother for ease and speed of working in all weathers etc. Otherwise, it is probably better to stick to A.m.m.(ish) bees.

The origin of the Buckfast bee was the cross-breeding of the dark, leather brown Apis mellifera ligustica of Northern Italy and the former British variety of the black Apis mellifera mellifera present before 1920.

nuclear DNA microsatellite markers for an imported " Buckfast" {Danish?} type of hybrid throws up 40%+ of Amm genetics..... the remaining 60% is made up from whatever the "local" population or donor drone happens to have in its DNA make up. ( from a peer reviewed but as yet unpublished paper... source I have been asked not to disclose)

I have the feeling that for some genetics is still in the dwarf pea big pea era.. ( The Monk Mendel did play around with honey bee genetics, got totally confused as he did not stumble upon the diploid / haploid complexity)

Time to move over and let the molecular geneticists destroy some long standing myths?

AS for now can someone breed a superbee that is wasp resistant!

​

Gregor Mendel
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Gregor Mendel
Gregor Mendel.png
Born Johann Mendel
July 20, 1822
Heinzendorf bei Odrau, Austrian Empire (now Hynčice, Czech Republic)
Died January 6, 1884 (aged 61)
Brno (Brünn), Austria-Hungary (now Czech Republic)
Nationality Empire of Austria-Hungary
Fields Genetics
Institutions St Thomas's Abbey
Alma mater University of Olomouc
University of Vienna
Known for Creating the science of genetics

Gregor Johann Mendel (July 20, 1822[1] – January 6, 1884) was a German-speaking Silesian[2][3] scientist and Augustinian friar who gained posthumous fame as the founder of the new science of genetics. Mendel demonstrated that the inheritance of certain traits in pea plants follows particular patterns, now referred to as the laws of Mendelian inheritance. The profound significance of Mendel's work was not recognized until the turn of the 20th century, when the independent rediscovery of these laws initiated the modern science of genetics.[4]

 

[mbc]

I have Buckies.

Location: Ceredigion

 

[Ely]

If you want a good tempered colony that will give you a decent honey crop... try a New Zealand Italian.. a man near Brighton up your end of the world can supply?
I have had a queen of that ilk productive for 4 years... which is similar to out local Amm in longevity and productivity.
I have no idea what so called buckfast bees are... probably yet another one of those beekeeping myths... so loved by some who post here!!

The New Zealand climate is supposed to be similar to ours isn't it? It certainly looks miserable weather on 'top of the lake' on tv at the moment

 

[waverider]

Six of my twelve colonies are AMM or Cornish black bees.

Recently pulled off thee to four supers per colony. Temperament; poor, some verging on evil. Combination of strong foraging and possible robbing. Very low varroa drop last year. Not tested this year, however upon observation of bees i have seen no varroa. Sticky-board mite drop testing soon.

Wasps steer clear of the hives! Not all of the six have poor temperament however the behaviour of the darker bee's by observation is significantly worser than my other colonies that are local and carnolian.