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how much is the going rate for a sunset or maybe a rainbow...

Such things as landscape, the oceans, human life are only are of monetary value to the evil capitalists who stalk our every move to pinch a quick penny!

Was it Jonathon Porrit who wrote a paper entitled " COSTING THE EARTH "?





:rant:deep green... no seats for them in the Tory Tumble... what PASTY TAX ???:rant:
 
I think most of you guys are confusing the value of "being a beekeeper" with the price of a colony. I certainly share your view that having bees around enriches life and is worth a lot.

As to the price of a single colony - how about some multiple of the annual income that it generates, say 10x? On that basis, mine were worth an average of about £10 each last year, but based on £3/lb and 40lb/year you would get about £1200.
 
Here's a question. What value (expressed in monetary terms) would you put on a hive and why?

Hive with colony about €120 to €150, do you want to buy some?

Chris
 
Whats it worth to me? If someone said I'll give you some money if you give up beekeeping I'd say about £500,000, so my hive is worth £500,000
Nah...changed my mind, not giving up, I love bees...:)

I would sell all my equipment and promise never to keep bee's again for £100,000, any offers??? ;)
 
I think most of you guys are confusing the value of "being a beekeeper" with the price of a colony. I certainly share your view that having bees around enriches life and is worth a lot.

As to the price of a single colony - how about some multiple of the annual income that it generates, say 10x? On that basis, mine were worth an average of about £10 each last year, but based on £3/lb and 40lb/year you would get about £1200.

Not if you give it away !:party:
 
Many people know the cost of everything, but the value of nothing.

I whole heartedly agree but the difficulty is how to express that value in a meaningful way that other people can relate to. It just so happens that we use money as a common expression of 'worth'. This isn't about capitalism it's about how one communicates value in a way that other people can understand.

This thread has thrown up some interesting comments and judging by the responses, it's prodded a degree of reflection, which can't be a bad thing.

I do have a reason for asking the question which I will make clear so there is a sub text to this which came up in the news recently and elsewhere. For the minute I'm deeply intrigued to understand how you 'value' a relationship with bees so any more thoughts on this would be great.
 
What is your reason then?
 
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This is not a 'commercial' question. The physical cost of a canvass and the oil paints used to paint a picture bear no relation to what a punter might pay for the finished painting. Similarily, the use of the term priceless is meaningless because it doesn't convey a 'tangible' value.

So my question is what's a hive worth to you?
One hive? All hives? That's taking hive to mean the physical structure and a colony within. I suspect there are too many variables for the question to have any answer that is satisfactory. For what it's worth, and to pass a damp lunchtime:

The analogy of cost of materials to make a painting doesn't quite stand up. The payment to an artist (or whoever acquired the painting since) comes with the assumption that it's a one off. It contains the thought and expression of that thought that the artist put into it. No-one could re-produce that exactly, including the artist, even if they wanted to. What it's worth is what someone is prepared to pay for it, which is complex and includes such factors as how well known the work is. Which is where we get into 'Scream' territory or practically any van Gogh. The fact that 'Scream' or 'Sunflowers' exists in a few versions helps with the 'well known' part since the others are locked away in museums and will never be on open sale.

To search for other artistic analogies, nor is a hive like a limited edition print in that we can split, split and split again given time and materials. If anything, it's closer to an unlimited print run. The cost to buy one essentially comes down to the physical cost of materials and technician skill to reproduce it plus retail mark up. It also includes a royalty fee to the artist for permission to copy which doesn't translate so well.

A closer analogy might be to other animals. To a large scale pedigree dog breeder the worth of keeping a show champion dog is in it's potential to breed more. Along with the fact that those progeny are desirable. Any individual is worth no more than others are prepared to pay to get some of that bloodline. Champions do change hands, and cost thousands running to tens of thousands, their puppies cost hundreds up to thousands in cash terms. In the bee world that is something like the scale of charges for specialist queens maintained in exclusive bloodlines, albeit on a smaller scale. In practice, dog breeders tend to make agreements that are set aside from the cash value, such as agreeing to provide a dog as a stud service to another breeder in return for 'the pick of the litter'. If the dog is not fertile after a certain age, it is worth nothing to the breeder, if a queen stops laying it is worth nothing.

In practice, even for breeders, familiarity makes dogs pets which have an entirely different scale of value. Families are given pups of mixed pedigree, they are essentially worthless. After a few years, a few medical complications come with vet bills for a hundred, a few hundred, even thousands. And they are paid. Similarly, I guess for many small scale beekeepers. The second hand value of a colony in a hive is limited but there are many who put large amounts of time and buy expensive equipment to keep their bees going. Not 'priceless' in the sense that art can be impossible to establish a market value for. But they can be 'priceless' in that the owner will pay out again and again to keep a few hives going without recovering the cost in either production or future sales which does make any 'tangible' estimate of value impossible.
 
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One hive? All hives? That's taking hive to mean the physical structure and a colony within. I suspect there are too many variables for the question to have any answer that is satisfactory.

Possibly but I think the exploration and reflection might be more useful than first appears. Value can be personal as you've so eloquently explained but that doesn't explain the social element to value which is where I guess the challenge lies.
 
It just so happens that we use money as a common expression of 'worth'. This isn't about capitalism it's about how one communicates value in a way that other people can understand.

What a load of cobblers.

....YOU may use money as a measure of value and so may some others BUT that says more about the person that can only understand things in those terms it doesn't include those of us that separate VALUE from cost...and you haven't given me anything to reflect on because you haven't said anything substantial.

Chris
 
Possibly but I think the exploration and reflection might be more useful than first appears. Value can be personal as you've so eloquently explained but that doesn't explain the social element to value which is where I guess the challenge lies.

Karol,

Anything's worth is only as much as someone is willing to pay for it. Anything's value is too subjective a matter to try and apply it to any wider meaning, as has been clearly noted from previous poster's comments.
There is NO social element to value!
 
Cedar hive empty new with foundations and 2 supers = £350.00
bees full colony...................................................= £250.00
don't tell mrsJ that - I've told her that apart from the stuff me and my mate built most of my kit was given to me by well meaning people or bought cheap on ebay! :D
 
Cedar hive empty new with foundations and 2 supers = £350.00
bees full colony...................................................= £250.00
don't tell mrsJ that - I've told her that apart from the stuff me and my mate built most of my kit was given to me by well meaning people or bought cheap on ebay! :D
Me too, Lucky for me my wife never looks at this forum !!!
 
Karol,

Anything's worth is only as much as someone is willing to pay for it. Anything's value is too subjective a matter to try and apply it to any wider meaning, as has been clearly noted from previous poster's comments.
There is NO social element to value!

No social element to value? Is that why footballers in the premiership earn millions whilst dustmen earn considerably less.

OK so here's the sub text. What do bee keepers think of GM crops? Threat or non threat to bees, especially where synthetic genes are introduced into plants to repel insects. Any risk to bees? Not my area of specialty but thought of you guys in response to planned forthcoming open field GM trials in the UK. If you don't agree with GM crops how do you defend against them? Intrinsic to that I believe is understanding how you value hives and more importantly how well you communicate that value to other people in a way they understand!
 
This is getting more and more bizarre.

Have we a baby troll in the house?

PH
 
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