What would you have done?

[MartinL]

The chairman says his hands are tied??
Sounds as though someone has too much say-so in your local association's committee.

By resigning you have strengthened the resolve of those with a contrary (dictatorial) view & weakened any remaining democracy within the association.

Abdicated Drama Queen?

 

[Beefriendly]

I note that under
B) Posology and method of administration by vaporisation
the document refers to one treatment per year.

Very true Gerry, although it doesn't say that you cannot use or treat more than 1x.....the 4 or 5 vapes is accepted and legal in USA and Europe and most of the rest of the world. Fact is it works for most hives and to date seems to have little effect on the bees but devastating to varroa.
I want to inform the students of all methods (not just vaporization) and was happy to explain that apibioxal is the only licenced oxalic acid treatment.
I strongly believe in telling people the truth about what goes on in beekeeping and allow them to make their own decisions based on what they wish to use once they know all the options.
I would never have the arrogance to decide what should or shouldn't be taught to beekeepers.
It's Orwellian to think experienced beekeepers want to keep certain information from other beekeepers.

 

[drex]

Two years ago I had an off the record chat with an SBI at one of their bee health days ( which I recommend to everyone, as you actually get to see AFB, EFB etc). I mentioned vaporisation and he said he believed it was not officially endorsed for health and safety reasons, but did use it himself.

 

[Brian Bush]

I would have worded a resolution for the AGM and used it as a platform to explain this censorship.
I assume this is your local BKA who are censoring? Do you have a free thinking editor of your association newsletter? If so put forward your argument to other members in there.
Sometimes education officers talk b______s to other beeks. Sit in on their sessions and interrupt politely at the end to point out that there are alternatives. I sat in a few years ago on one of our 'lessons' for newbees. The speaker made several basic mistakes. I assume he was teaching from the BBKA pack which has omissions. At the end in the question and answer session I politely pointed out that I thought he had forgotten something. I explained why it should be done. I then realized he genuinely did not know. He asked me to elaborate for the benefit of everyone. This year I heard the same speaker give the same part of the course. He included the extra procedure. There is always more than one way to make a point. If you walk away the only people who will know are the bigot and his cronies. You are condemning your fellow beeks to suffer their prejudices.
If it is the National BBKA that is the issue then write to the chairman and talk to your local delegate and get this prejudiced ***** fired. Walking away just lets the ***** win and should be a last resort.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Is there any scientific evidence that vaping a colony several times a few days apart is harmless

Yes, plenty

 

[beeno]

Hi Beefriendly,
I can see both sides in this argument. The salient point is that it was a beginners' lecture and the judgement 'what do you tell a beginner to do or not to do' a judgement which has been exercised on many occasions on this forum on far less hazardous issues.
People in today's society are generally less willing to take responsibility for their own action/s - it's a blame game.
Nothing wrong in standing up for one's principles on either side IMHO. Does not make you a primadonna or the BBKA representative an old fossil.

 

[Beefriendly]

That is the point Beeno, being told what I could or could not say in my own talk....It would have been the same outcome, say, if I was angrily told that I could not to talk about a particular method of swarm control or not allowed to talk about poly hives etc.
That might be perceived as arrogance on my part, in which case guilty as charged.
Action is being taken by senior members of the association. That is all I can ask for.

I'd also like to thank most of you for the supportive comments and suggestions. They are appreciated.

 

[Poly Hive]

I will add for the record in reply to the rather rude comment by the rather rude OP who I had on ignore for long enough and am returning to said status.

I am no expert on vaping never having used it for reasons stated above in the thread, masks and risks and so on and find trickling to be more than effective. I also have doubts regarding multiple vaping as I cannot see it being non detrimental to the bees.

I ask my students to look at Beebase as the best guidance for Varroa treatments until they are confident and knowledgeable enough to make informed decisions as to how they are going to treat and also to keep them up to date. Given the way this issues changes this seems the prudent path.

PH

 

[fatshark]

Multiple vaporisations ... look up stuff from Ratzicki (sic) listed on Randy Olivers scientific beekeeping site ... once a week for a season if I remember, but the original paper is published in Italian I think.

For completeness here is the VMD documentation (Word document) ... this includes a description of vaporisation confirming that it is an approved method, omits the problems this causes with caramelisation of the glucose - other than the need to clean the vaporiser of any residues - but indicates one treatment per year.

Recommended dose is 2.3g

Interestingly, they report adverse reactions (significantly higher bee mortality) for a double dose of the product by sublimation. This contradicts some other reports I think.

And, in response to the OP's Q, I'd have been very cheesed off having a talk cancelled at such short notice for the reason stated. I assume you made clear that the materials you'd sent them were not for use or distribution?

PS Worth noting that Managing Varroa on BeeBase (their guide to, er, managing Varroa) is dated 2017, that it includes guidance that 'vaporisation' is a valid treatment method and that it remains woefully out of date regarding the distribution of Apistan-resistance in mites

 

[beeno]

That is the point Beeno, being told what I could or could not say in my own talk....It would have been the same outcome, say, if I was angrily told that I could not to talk about a particular method of swarm control or not allowed to talk about poly hives etc.
That might be perceived as arrogance on my part, in which case guilty as charged.
Action is being taken by senior members of the association. That is all I can ask for.

I'd also like to thank most of you for the supportive comments and suggestions. They are appreciated.

Not the same. This is a safety issue me thinks.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Multiple vaporisations ... look up stuff from Ratzicki (sic) listed on Randy Olivers scientific beekeeping site ... once a week for a season if I remember, but the original paper is published in Italian I think.

(

http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/files/__www.mellifera.de_engl2.pdf

 

[For want of a better word]

I will add for the record in reply to the rather rude comment by the rather rude OP who I had on ignore for long enough and am returning to said status.



PH

Hoist on his own petard... in the case of OP

Appoint the BBKA mediation services?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Hoist on his own petard.

It's 'by' not 'on' a petard was a type of bomb

 

[For want of a better word]

It's 'by' not 'on' a petard was a type of bomb

Ol Shakey would have it was a play on words.... French for FART!!

stinks either way

Vacuous!

 

[Dave /Oscroft]

Their education officer is just plain wrong. Apibioxal is licensed to vape but unless you protect your vaporiser it will ruin it. Foil lining anyone?
Only you can answer whether you need to walk away from an organisation due to them censoring you.
I agree that their education officer probably has an IQ comparible to Donald Trump.

As Anduril said PPE is important but you have that if trickling Apibioxal anyway.

No need to pick on Donald !

 

[Gilberdyke John]

I’d be very interested in people’s comments on a recent situation as to whether I behaved like a prima donna or correctly. It has been quite upsetting.
I shall explain.
Several weeks ago I was asked to give a talk to my local BBKA branch association’s beginner’s class on the beekeeping year. A quite difficult talk, as in what to elaborate in detail and what to mention but not elaborate on (queen rearing for example). I’d already decided that varroa control would be a central theme throughout, as in ignore varroa at your peril. This winters losses suggest I wasn’t far out.
I was due to give the talk tomorrow night, so imagine my surprise when the course organiser (the associations education officer) rang me up on Friday and said “I’m unhappy about your talk” (I’d sent them handouts to print out). More specifically this person was not happy about me talking about vaporization of Apibioxal as a method of varroa control. From a rather heated conversation it was quite obvious he had a severe prejudice (or ignorance) about a perfectly legal method of varroa control that is used by many.
I refused to not give the talk unless I was able to inform all the students of all the different methods of varroa control, including vaporization of oxalic acid (apibioxal). When pressurized further as to whether this was acceptable I was told they no longer wished me give the talk.
I have since resigned as I cannot be part of a BBKA association whose own education officer restricts the information that beekeepers are given based, presumably, on their own prejudices.
Was I morally correct? Or am I overreacting like a prima donna?

Maybe my association is different in that we sometimes have to cast around for speakers. However we had a session a few years ago where I occupied part of the evening with a PowerPoint talk titled Winter feed syrup preparation. It was about making and using Hivemakers preservative recipe and it's "anecdotal" benefits against nosema. Not particularly ground-breaking at the time but hardly any of the long term attendees had heard of it.
I didn't rely on the association to produce hangouts but took 30 copies I had printed myself. It only cost me the price of the paper and ink. I'll give our members their due, the message was taken on board and the recipe is being used.
Taking your own handouts might have avoided the situation you experienced?

 

[Hivemaker.]

http://www.docsdrive.com/pdfs/ansinet/pjbs/2005/1142-1145.pdf

https://www.apidologie.org/articles/apido/full_html/2010/02/m09043/m09043.html

 

[Beefriendly]

Taking your own handouts might have avoided the situation you experienced?

It would John, but I was quite busy and the course organiser offered to have them printed for me. An offer I now wish I'd declined....I would only have had approx 180 sheets to print

 

[Beefriendly]

Not the same. This is a safety issue me thinks.

And keeping bees is a "safe" hobby?
All that protective gear required, the danger of anaphylactic reactions to bee stings.
I would have thought the addition of a mask and filters to avoid exposure to OA vapor is not taking the risks involved in beekeeping much further.
The real issue here was not about OA vaporization but of controlling what an invited speaker could or could not teach.

 

[oliver90owner]

Dunno, but our bee inspector used to get really wound up when I asked why they were not advising oxalic sublimation, around 15 yars ago. Especially when I insisted it worked OK for me.

That was in the days of bayvarol, apistan or apiguard only, along with a bit of IPM.