What would you have done?

[Finman]

Dunno, but our bee inspector used to get really wound up when I asked why they were not advising oxalic sublimation, around 15 yars ago. Especially when I insisted it worked OK for me.

That was in the days of bayvarol, apistan or apiguard only, along with a bit of IPM.

Japan professor generated hive sublimation on 1960's. But obviosly there were no beekeepers in Europe who understood Japanese language.

 

[john t]

as this was for a beginners class i personally would not talk about varroa treatment in any depth as it is a subject on its own and certainly not for a beginners talk, of course mention diseases and mites but im sure given the limited amount of time available there are far more fascinating things to talk about

but i think the situation may have been handled a lot better and they have now lost a knowledgeable resource,


i would have just removed that topic

 

[Beefriendly]

i would have just removed that topic

A bit tricky John. The talk was the beekeeping year and what gets done whenever the weather allows. I'd decided that the recurrent theme was to be varroa control....ignore them at your peril.
It would have been remiss to not include mention (with little in depth detail) about all the different legal varroa treatments and the appropriate times of their application throughout the year.

 

[DanBee]

Read the label on your packets of Abioxal.
This becomes even more worrying when another supposed educator of beekeepers shows his ignorance.
Here is a link where you will be happily corrected.
http://www.vmd.defra.gov.uk/productinformationdatabase/SPC_Documents/SPC_807534.DOC

You came down too harshly on PH, IMHO, but you were probably still riled by making the first post.

TBH the apibioxal vs. generic oxalic arrangement presents a bizarre parallel existence - oxalic acid packaged as a branded product approved for use via specific methods, oxalic acid available as a generic chemical not approved for use in any method. I can see how somebody could be confused as to what was OK and what was not - we can't be experts on all aspects all of the time. One person's "dumb question" might be ten people's "too embarrassed to ask".

"Read the label on your packets" isn't that helpful if you don't have packets to hand(!), but thankfully you provided a link to help steer the discussion back on track.

It's a shame that your local association have lost your enthusiasm and contribution due to friction with one committee member.

I learnt the hard way to print my own handouts (and charge for paper/ink if appropriate) rather than provide PDFs for printing. Yes, the information is generic on one level, but when you've put thought, time, and effort into making a cohesive and informative presentation, worksheets, etc., then it is irksome to say the least. Hang on to your own hard work.

 

[Finman]

.
Good heavens! You will kill each others by speaking about illegal varroa treatments. No one will be remain in prison.

As long as I have been on British bee forum, that illegal has been a hammer with which everyone is right.

Speak another and do another. That is my advice. Tell them, what they want to hear.
.

 

[Beefriendly]

You came down too harshly on PH, IMHO, but you were probably still riled by making the first post. .

Possibly, I was surprised he (PH) didn't appear to know that vaporization (Apibioxal) was legal. It's a topic that has been well discussed on many threads on this forum.
Yes....In the past I always print my own PDF's etc and charged basic costs, but had a very busy weekend with little time to do them so the offer was kindly received at the time.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

http://www.docsdrive.com/pdfs/ansinet/pjbs/2005/1142-1145.pdf

https://www.apidologie.org/articles/apido/full_html/2010/02/m09043/m09043.html

Thanks Pete

 

[Hachi]

I think you did the right thing Bf.

I have been in clubs and know of a few more where these so called education officers who forget they are [in my experience] asked to do the role to simply have a warm arse on a seat and go on to rule with the hammer of thor. their usual chant being "my way or nothing". I wonder how many clubs have been brought to their knees by these small minded people who won't embrace evolution?

 

[peteinwilts]

their usual chant being "my way or nothing". I wonder how many clubs have been brought to their knees by these small minded people who won't embrace evolution?

isn't this a requirement for the BBKA?

 

[alldigging]

isn't this a requirement for the BBKA?

A club near here gleefully told us how they'd hounded a woman out for making a comment about some of their disease treatment being out of date.

We left and haven't been back.

 

[casualman]

If you had gone ahead and not mentioned sublimation one of the audience is bound to have asked you during question time about it. Then what? refused to answer or go on to explain about Api-Bioxal and sublimation by Oxalic crystals and make it clear that the latter is illegal. It is not illegal to discuss doing an illegal substance provided you do not incite or encourage anyone to use it. It is perfectly legal to have a discussion about whether sublimation using the the unlicensed method should be made legal just like there is an ongoing discussion about making the use of Cannabis legal in certain circumstances. It's called democracy.

Provided you do not incite or encourage anyone to do an illegal act you should be entitled to give your talk without censorship. I can quite understand your reaction and would have taken the same stance as you. As others have said I think the whole thing has been handled badly. The organisers should have simply satisfied themselves that you were not going to promote anything illegal so they could cover their own backs. However, they only become potential aiders and abettors if they are aware that a lecturer is going to promote an illegal act. By insisting that they vet everyone's lecture before it is given they are, in effect sanctioning what is said and thereby making a rod for their own backs.

 

[maddydog]

isn't this a requirement for the BBKA?

Not sure why all the fuss. Don't need the BBKA to successfully keep bees.

 

[Finman]

.
I wonder what you Competition official say, that some German company had got monopoly in UK in oxalic acid usage for bees.

You can use oxalic acid, if you use a certain product name and you pay £300/kg.

You get exactly they same chemical from free markets £10/kg.

How it is possible in Britain, that you can buy a monopol situation to use some raw material in production?

. Could you ask this from Competition Office. The seller company cannot have any patent in using oxalic acid.



.

 

[eltalia]

Me?
The request was for a tute on a bees year.
Break the talk down into subtitles leaving space on the handout
for the 'student' to make notes. Hand that out.
Topics you are aware are controversial you leave as a simple title.
"Pests and Disease in colony management"
"Overwintering the brood nest"
"Pesticide use in the apiary"
(as example)
You then have two options;
A) address minimal detail "on the fly"
B) introduce close detail on delivery

After a "warm up period" folks will always ask questions.
So leave the controversial detail to question time.
Know your topic and leave a set time/space for questions.

Of course be prepared for the "powers that bee" to either
derail your delivery in real time or bail you up after the tute.

Bill

 

[Stiffy]

Not sure why all the fuss. Don't need the BBKA to successfully keep bees.

Not been a member for years and from what I’ve seen and heard they are becoming more irrelevant by the day.
S