What manipulations are you planning to try as a beginner.

[Amari]

....train spotting used to be good...when we had real trains; this used to be one of my favourite spots. (Not my image....I'm slightly too young to have had a camera in those days.)


View attachment 29853

Lovely pic!

I remember steam with nostalgia. In January 1945, age 3 1/2, I was entrusted to the care of the guard in the guard's van = the last 'carriage' in the train, steaming from Manchester to Leamington Spa to be looked after by my Granny for a few weeks. I remember sharing the journey with cages of pigeons - carrier pigeons maybe? In the late 1940s, age 8-9, I travelled alone (seated in a carriage this time) a couple of times between Carmarthen and Cardiff. Wouldn't be allowed nowadays?

Apols for straying off-topic.....

 

[Cuckmere couple]

Lovely pic!

I remember steam with nostalgia. In January 1945, age 3 1/2, I was entrusted to the care of the guard in the guard's van = the last 'carriage' in the train, steaming from Manchester to Leamington Spa to be looked after by my Granny for a few weeks. I remember sharing the journey with cages of pigeons - carrier pigeons maybe? In the late 1940s, age 8-9, I travelled alone (seated in a carriage this time) a couple of times between Carmarthen and Cardiff. Wouldn't be allowed nowadays?

Apols for straying off-topic.....

i had a friend who died a few years back now who had worked as a 'fireman' on steam engines....shovelling coal

i remember him saying it could be freezing if you were going 'tender first' to Scotland i guess meaning you could also be pushing.....and added if you annoyed the driver, hed make it really hard work by basically blowing off the steam and making him shovel faster

good history

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

it could be freezing if you were going 'tender first' to Scotland i guess meaning you could also be pushing

I think he meant pulling but with the engine going 'backwards' so that all the cold wind would blow into the cab and all the heat always being behind you being blown away.
As a child my grandparent's next door neighbour, (who became my stepfather when I was in my twenties) was an engine driver (started off with steam as well, had a full driver's ticket and was asked more than once to bring it out and drive the 'heritage' engines. As treat sometimes his mother - my auntie Blod, would call through the kitchen window (which looked into our back yard) and tell me to meet Byron out the front, he would take me in his three wheeler to Pantyffynon station where the engine yards were. He would then clock on and take me in the engine, sat on the 'fireman's seat' (even Deltic diesel engines had a fireman's seat - with an electric ring to make the tea! with Ideal milk of course) and I'd have a trip up to Abernant colliery washeries to pick up a load, I'd even get a ride in the brake van for part of the trip (they had a proper coal fired pot bellied stove). On the return journey he'd stop the train just short of the signal box and level crossing in the village and |I would quickly jump out, climb over the fence and cross the field to our back garden where my mother had my tea ready!

 

[Cuckmere couple]

I think he meant pulling but with the engine going 'backwards' so that all the cold wind would blow into the cab and all the heat always being behind you being blown away.
As a child my grandparent's next door neighbour, (who became my stepfather when I was in my twenties) was an engine driver (started off with steam as well, had a full driver's ticket and was asked more than once to bring it out and drive the 'heritage' engines. As treat sometimes his mother - my auntie Blod, would call through the kitchen window (which looked into our back yard) and tell me to meet Byron out the front, he would take me in his three wheeler to Pantyffynon station where the engine yards were. He would then clock on and take me in the engine, sat on the 'fireman's seat' (even Deltic diesel engines had a fireman's seat - with an electric ring to make the tea! with Ideal milk of course) and I'd have a trip up to Abernant colliery washeries to pick up a load, I'd even get a ride in the brake van for part of the trip (they had a proper coal fired pot bellied stove). On the return journey he'd stop the train just short of the signal box and level crossing in the village and |I would quickly jump out, climb over the fence and cross the field to our back garden where my mother had my tea ready!

great story....lots of oral history here threatening to disappear....he also used to say they cooked bacon and eggs on the shovel....plus use it for other things! and thanks for correcting my interpretation....

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

he also used to say they cooked bacon and eggs on the shovel....plus use it for other things

My stepfather said the same, he used the story to break the ice with SWMBO when she first came over to meet my parents as she was so nervous 'as if we were any better than a collier's daughter' were his words. they'd just chuck the 'deposit' out the side!

 

[Erichalfbee]

My father in law was a signalman on the Settle to Carlisle line and latterly on the Euston to Glasgow line. Stan used to spend time in the signal box with his dad as a nipper. His mum still lives in a railway cottage on the line. Excursion steam trains are a special treat.

 

[pargyle]

....train spotting used to be good...when we had real trains; this used to be one of my favourite spots. (Not my image....I'm slightly too young to have had a camera in those days.)


View attachment 29853

45565 "Victoria' - Jubilee Class - Designed by Stanier, first of the Class entered service in 1935 - Used mainly on the LMS Passenger services in its heyday but in my trainspotting days was relegated mainly to freight - for a couple of years, as I recall, was the standby engine at sheffield Midland - One of the last Jubilee Class to be taken out of service in 1967. Four of the Class are preserved and three still have mainline tickets ... 2 are based at Carnforth shed.

I recall everyone cheering when a similar standby engine had to tow one of the 'New' Deltic class diesels off the platform at Doncaster when it broke down at the head of an Edinburgh bound express. Mallard was a regular standby engine at Doncaster and one of my friends father was its regular driver ... I often got footplate visits when he was on the engine. (Would never be allowed today !).

Proper Steam engines ...

 

[Cuckmere couple]

My father in law was a signalman on the Settle to Carlisle line and latterly on the Euston to Glasgow line. Stan used to spend time in the signal box with his dad as a nipper. His mum still lives in a railway cottage on the line. Excursion steam trains are a special treat.

lovely

i've done Settle to Carlisle as a tourist on steam....beautiful

 

[pargyle]

lovely

i've done Settle to Carlisle as a tourist on steam....beautiful

Yes ... it's a trip well worth doing ... not a cheap excursion but the smell and sounds of being pulled by a steam engine (Possibly one of the two Jubilee class based at Carnforth) is an experience had to find anywhere else with such fantastic scenery.

 

[Cuckmere couple]

The actual basic process is quite straightforward really. Have a look at BMH Demaree video . Much of the above discussion is to do with a "rolling" demaree which is one variation of the basic manipulation.

just watched the rest of this

he starts with a double brood and lifts the whole double brood above the two supers and starts with an empty box at bottom except for the frame q is on

JBM and Dani....i cant remember what we were saying last season in the bottom box...foundation? or a mixture of comb and foundation?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yes ... it's a trip well worth doing ... not a cheap excursion but the smell and sounds of being pulled by a steam engine (Possibly one of the two Jubilee class based at Carnforth) is an experience had to find anywhere else with such fantastic scenery.

You’d have gone past ma-in-law’s house

 

[user 20297]

just watched the rest of this

he starts with a double brood and lifts the whole double brood above the two supers and starts with an empty box at bottom except for the frame q is on

JBM and Dani....i cant remember what we were saying last season in the bottom box...foundation? or a mixture of comb and foundation?

I think the ideal, if you have it, would be comb, as you don't want to set back egg-laying. But I didn't have enough of it last year and, as with BMH, found it worked OK with a mixture.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

JBM and Dani....i cant remember what we were saying last season in the bottom box...foundation? or a mixture of comb and foundation?

As much drawn comb as you can, a mixture is fine. You can even go for all foundation, but it depends if there's a flow on or not. If you do an early Demarree as you approach the June gap, it can cause issues.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yes I’ll echo what JBM says. If you use foundation and there is no income the queen has nowhere to lay. I’d be wary of the bees just swarming.

 

[Beedogg]

and the thinking is that these are better quality QCs for those wanting increase as they are closer to supercedure than emergency....seems logical

So am I right in thinking that it would be OK with just one super between the LBB and the UBB and then another super or two on top of the UBB?
So: LBB; QE; Super; Demaree board (with QE); UBB; super; super?

 

[Cuckmere couple]

So am I right in thinking that it would be OK with just one super between the LBB and the UBB and then another super or two on top of the UBB?
So: LBB; QE; Super; Demaree board (with QE); UBB; super; super?

my understanding is it should be two supers between brood boxes and can be more...the further space this affords, weakens the q pheromone making the UBB think the q is failing, hence supercedure rather than emergency cells

i put a super above UBB as i had an upper entrance and during the flow, bees needed somewhere else to store...but from the 3 you describe, it should be

bb, qex, super x2, qex, bb and then another super or just cb and roof

 

[user 20297]

my understanding is it should be two supers between brood boxes and can be more...the further space this affords, weakens the q pheromone making the UBB think the q is failing, hence supercedure rather than emergency cells

i put a super above UBB as i had an upper entrance and during the flow, bees needed somewhere else to store...but from the 3 you describe, it should be

bb, qex, super x2, qex, bb and then another super or just cb and roof

Isn't the main reason for placing the supers between the new, bottom brood box and the original, now upper box so that the bees are less inclined to backfill the top box with stores? The creation of EQCells in that top box is just incidental and can only continue for a few days after setup. All brood at the top is above a QX (or two) and consequently, no new eggs can appear there.

 

[Cuckmere couple]

Isn't the main reason for placing the supers between the new, bottom brood box and the original, now upper box so that the bees are less inclined to backfill the top box with stores? The creation of EQCells in that top box is just incidental and can only continue for a few days after setup. All brood at the top is above a QX (or two) and consequently, no new eggs can appear there.

i dont think so....the main reason is a swarm prevention one which is separating the brood from flyers and queen below by putting original bb with BIA and nurse bees above, separated by two supers and the bottom QEX certainly (to keep queen in LBB) and usually below UBB in case you miss a QC in the UBB

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

So am I right in thinking that it would be OK with just one super between the LBB and the UBB and then another super or two on top of the UBB?
So: LBB; QE; Super; Demaree board (with QE); UBB; super; super?

Yes
But be aware, if your objective is to get a couple of queen cells to make up a nuc the more shallows between the two boxes the better chance of success

 

[Beedogg]

Thanks. I think that at this stage until I get the hang of it my objective is to reduce the likelihood of swarm preparations.