What manipulations are you planning to try as a beginner.

[Do224]

By the time your colony is strong enough and in the right place (7/8 frames of brood and a good proportion of drone brood) you would already have supered and the bees will be drawing and filling that super. Yes the second one can be foundation. Another point is it's better to Demaree with as much drawn comb in the bottom brood as possible. If you are a beginner you won't have any. So my advice for your first year is to AS another way and get some spare brood frames drawn then you can try a Demaree the following year

Just been watching a BMH vid on YouTube about Demaree. Lawrence actually reckons it’s better to use all foundation in the bottom box, saying drawn comb is his second choice. I guess his argument might be that it slows the bees down a bit and knocks potential swarm preps further into the future?

At about 6:35

 

[Curly green finger's]

Just been watching a BMH vid on YouTube about Demaree. Lawrence actually reckons it’s better to use all foundation in the bottom box, saying drawn comb is his second choice. I guess his argument might be that it slows the bees down a bit and knocks potential swarm preps further into the future?

At about 6:35

It gives the queen a break also for a short while.

 

[user 20297]

It gives the queen a break also for a short while.

Does that not also slow down colony increase when the primary intention of the procedure is, to keep the colony expanding whilst avoiding swarming?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Just been watching a BMH vid on YouTube about Demaree. Lawrence actually reckons it’s better to use all foundation in the bottom box, saying drawn comb is his second choice. I guess his argument might be that it slows the bees down a bit and knocks potential swarm preps further into the future?

At about 6:35

You might as well do a Pagden then

 

[Erichalfbee]

It gives the queen a break also for a short while.

How quickly do bees draw foundation when they need it ?

 

[Curly green finger's]

How quickly do bees draw foundation when they need it ?

Very quickly, but the queen would still have a break if using foundation.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Does that not also slow down colony increase when the primary intention of the procedure is, to keep the colony expanding whilst avoiding swarming?

It might only slow the queen down for days.
The colony will keep expanding with all the emerging brood in the top brood box... My point was about the queen.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Very quickly, but the queen would still have a break if using foundation.

A day maybe

 

[Curly green finger's]

A day maybe

Up to a week @BMH
What are your thoughts Lawrence?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Lawrence actually reckons it’s better to use all foundation in the bottom box, saying drawn comb is his second choice. I guess his argument might be that it slows the bees down a bit and knocks potential swarm preps further into the future?

Nah - always better to have some drawn comb in the bottom box so that the queen has ready room to lay. Using all/mostly foundation is fine as long as you have a good flow going, such as if you're on OSR but if you start a Demarre just before a dearth, such as spring weather turns bad or you hit the 'June gap' you could end up triggering a swarm and in some cases leaving the remaining bees with poor or very few swarm cells.

 

[Do224]

Nah - always better to have some drawn comb in the bottom box so that the queen has ready room to lay. Using all/mostly foundation is fine as long as you have a good flow going, such as if you're on OSR but if you start a Demarre just before a dearth, such as spring weather turns bad or you hit the 'June gap' you could end up triggering a swarm and in some cases leaving the remaining bees with poor or very few swarm cells.

I thought a Demaree was supposed to provide really good quality queen cells? Because the bees in the top box still smell some queen pheromone and so make cells that are more like supercedure quality than emergency...

 

[Cuckmere couple]

You might as well do a Pagden then

agree...this BMH video does show foundation in LBB...its effectively a pagden with a demaree

agree with JBM...need to be on a good flow

 

[Erichalfbee]

I thought a Demaree was supposed to provide really good quality queen cells? Because the bees in the top box still smell some queen pheromone and so make cells that are more like supercedure quality than emergency...

It does. In the top box. But what can happen if the queen is restricted by not having room to lay in the scenario JBM describes is that the bees make queen cells in the bottom and swarm. Remember there’s no immediate need to look in the bottom box of a Demaree.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I thought a Demaree was supposed to provide really good quality queen cells

yes, but you are not always guaranteed any in the top box. If the bottom box is compromised and any remaining larvae in the top box (bear in mind that you may have taken down the QC's as part of your swarm controls) are old, you could end up buggering up the whole shebang.

 

[Do224]

yes, but you are not always guaranteed any in the top box. If the bottom box is compromised and any remaining larvae in the top box (bear in mind that you may have taken down the QC's as part of your swarm controls) are old, youb could end up buggering up the whole shebang.

Got it, thanks.

 

[The Poot]

I had a quick chat with Hivemaker when collecting a new hive (I was a total beginner) and I asked about swarm control. He answered that he often carried out demarree. I didn’t have a clue what he was saying and sort of grunted. He smiled benignly and changed the subject, to avoid making me feel awkward.

 

[Do224]

I had a quick chat with Hivemaker when collecting a new hive (I was a total beginner) and I asked about swarm control. He answered that he often carried out demarree. I didn’t have a clue what he was saying and sort of grunted. He smiled benignly and changed the subject, to avoid making me feel awkward.

And now you use Demaree?

 

[The Poot]

And now you use Demaree?

No - for me just the thought of humping honey filled brood boxes off a tall stack is enough to put my back out!
I go double brood, manipulate frames and super as soon as possible, splitting if or when queen cells are made. I am not interested in making huge colonies for honey production to sell on, I’m just a hobbyist.

 

[Do224]

No - for me just the thought of humping honey filled brood boxes off a tall stack is enough to put my back out!
I go double brood, manipulate frames and super as soon as possible, splitting if or when queen cells are made. I am not interested in making huge colonies for honey production to sell on, I’m just a hobbyist.

When you see queen cells and split your double brood colonies, is it just a case of taking the two boxes apart and letting the queenless box raise a new queen? Wouldn’t the queen right colony still swarm?

 

[Swarm]

And now you use Demaree?

Just one of a number of methods of colony management.