What manipulations are you planning to try as a beginner.

[Erichalfbee]

All bar one which swarmed weeks after I’d started it. I have to be really on top of varroa treatment with them.

 

[Beedogg]

You don't need an upper entrance for a Demarree, that's just a recent 'invention' the bees will cope just as well without it as long as you continue to at least inspect the top box weekly.

Thanks for that clarification. I didn't feel very comfortable with the riser-spacer since no matter how carefully it was constructed my view was that it was never likely to fit perfectly. On the other hand, I could see no reason why the bees in the top brood box couldn't pass down through the QX if they wanted to (other than the drones of course) or indeed pass out of the brood-box (but remain inside the WBC outer walls) through a slot in the Demaree board and then if so minded could exit to the outside world through the main hive entrance. After all, although I'd have separated the brood into two they are essentially the same colony, are they not?

 

[Curly green finger's]

I had 4 demaree going over the season with foundation all in the lower bb and the frame the queen was on.
I didn't rotate any frames from the bottom bb but added supers in between bbs and then on top. finished one of these colonys of on the Heather.
2 other demaree I used brood frames from the bottom bb to make nucs with extra frames of stores.

In thought I've not rotated frames and you don't really need to.
This season I've had double brood colonys crammed with wall to wall brood and know swarm preps.
Demarree singles the same get the space right above them when the flow is on and your away.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

although I'd have separated the brood into two they are essentially the same colony, are they not?

yes

 

[Erichalfbee]

I had 4 demaree going over the season with foundation all in the lower bb and the frame the queen was on.
I didn't rotate any frames from the bottom bb but added supers in between bbs and then on top. finished one of these colonys of on the Heather.
2 other demaree I used brood frames from the bottom bb to make nucs with extra frames of stores.

In thought I've not rotated frames and you don't really need to.
This season I've had double brood colonys crammed with wall to wall brood and know swarm preps.
Demarree singles the same get the space right above them when the flow is on and your away.

So you don’t take the top box away?
Do you let the brood emerge then use the box as a super?

 

[Curly green finger's]

Yes to the bottom part
Had to remove some pollen frames from the upper bbs after brood emerged

 

[Cuckmere couple]

All bar one which swarmed weeks after I’d started it. I have to be really on top of varroa treatment with them.

this is my big area of interest this year

i demareed a few last year...maybe 5-6....and pretty much all lasted throughout spring with rotation working really well, and then whatever i was doing differently/wrong, i started to find swarm cells in LBB before summer flow

i took it that most colonies will need splitting at some point each year (mine were queens in their 2nd year in the main) and that i would think of allowing them to requeen during spring flow to allow build up for summer again

still unsure why they started to show swarm preps when Dani and JBM dont usually see that

 

[Erichalfbee]

I think if you have a long season like you do trying to keep a Demaree going for that long is a challenge.

 

[Beedogg]

I think if you have a long season like you do trying to keep a Demaree going for that long is a challenge.

Because it's a bore checking every 5 days or so and swapping frames around? Or because the effect wears off?

Not a silly question, I hope. I'm trying to absorb as much knowledge as I can before I start trying it this year.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Because the colony just gets too big. If there is a good flow the bees get cracking and bring the nectar in. If it slows there’s lots of bees doing nothing. Idle bees make for ideal swarm conditions

 

[Cuckmere couple]

the colonies certainly did get huge (in my experience anyway)

but Beedogg, it wasnt about boredom or effect wearing off.....i was able to continue to rotate frames for a good few weeks but for some reason i ended up finding swarm preps in the lower bb meaning the rolling demaree wasnt able to continue into the summer.

I took Dani's answer to mean a longer season here than where she is ie they started building up very fast in March and by early summer, had been rolling a good while.

I wondered if I should accept that they will need to be split at some point in a season and therefore was contemplating allowing them to re-queen a week or two before spring flow is over to give the new queen a chance to start laying up for a summer forage force....rather than what happened, which was a requeening a week before the summer flow was on if that makes sense

 

[Erichalfbee]

the colonies certainly did get huge (in my experience anyway)

but Beedogg, it wasnt about boredom or effect wearing off.....i was able to continue to rotate frames for a good few weeks but for some reason i ended up finding swarm preps in the lower bb meaning the rolling demaree wasnt able to continue into the summer.

I took Dani's answer to mean a longer season here than where she is ie they started building up very fast in March and by early summer, had been rolling a good while.

I wondered if I should accept that they will need to be split at some point in a season and therefore was contemplating allowing them to re-queen a week or two before spring flow is over to give the new queen a chance to start laying up for a summer forage force....rather than what happened, which was a requeening a week before the summer flow was on if that makes sense

If you’re finding the Demaree gets on top of you then you can try putting a frame of foundation into the middle of the brood.
I must admit that my biggest colonies get simply split.

 

[Cuckmere couple]

If you’re finding the Demaree gets on top of you then you can try putting a frame of foundation into the middle of the brood.
I must admit that my biggest colonies get simply split.

thanks Dani...yes that was something i learnt a couple of years back on fast growing colonies and have used a fair bit since then....amazed at how well it works and how quickly they draw and lay up a sheet of foundation in this way

 

[Murox]

Just some thoughts

the queen needs laying space and swarming before a major nectar flow is nearly always to do with issues in the brood area.

The queen can't lay eggs in foundation until the bees draw it into comb, and the bees need lots of energy/nectar quickly to give them the push to produce/ build comb – was there a hiatus that maybe prompted bees into swarm/supersedure mode ?

In the “normal” swarm process without intervention, the young bees reared at peak brood volume are available for the swarm, and when the brood nest is sufficiently 'vacated', swarm cells get started as they have generated the right age mix of bees to support two colonies.

 

[Erichalfbee]

If you’re rolling a Demaree you are constantly moving the capped brood away so that does disrupt things somewhat.

 

[Cuckmere couple]

agreed Murox

the other point i'm reflecting on was that i was removing newly laid up frames from LBB rather than waiting for them to be capped because the UBB frames were emerging and being backfilled with nectar rapidly (i did have an upper entrance)....which did mean some small patches of capped brood about to emerge, went back down to LBB (although these were largely empty frames, but with some nectar as described)

this may have prompted swarm preps along with size of colony...they were v full brood boxes of bees

 

[Swarm]

You needed a third box.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

which did mean some small patches of capped brood about to emerge, went back down to LBB (although these were largely empty frames, but with some nectar as described)

this may have prompted swarm preps along with size of colony

very unlikely, I do that all the time.

 

[Erichalfbee]

agreed Murox

the other point i'm reflecting on was that i was removing newly laid up frames from LBB rather than waiting for them to be capped because the UBB frames were emerging and being backfilled with nectar rapidly (i did have an upper entrance)....which did mean some small patches of capped brood about to emerge, went back down to LBB (although these were largely empty frames, but with some nectar as described)

this may have prompted swarm preps along with size of colony...they were v full brood boxes of bees

I Demaree 14x12. Backfilling brood frames is a pain if they do it early. I have tried a third super in between the two broods even though there are supers on top already. I try to make sure the super on top of the top box has lots of room

 

[Curly green finger's]

You needed a third box.

My thoughts exactly the third box would go directly above the lbb.