What manipulations are you planning to try as a beginner.

[Curly green finger's]

I was thinking and I'm interested to know what hive manipulations beginners plan to use this season.
As an example - first/second year beeks wanting to possibly try demaree as part of there swarm prevention.
2. Splitting the brood nest with comb or foundation.
3. wanting to manipulate a colony to double brood
4. Getting to grips with finding and marking queen's, or starting with marking drones first to get use to using a crown of thornes or whatever type of queen catcher you want to use.
Just a few examples of methods I will be showing my mentorees.
Feel free to post with your thoughts and plans and questions/concerns
Thanks all
C. G. F

Edit: I thought I would start this thread as it might give some new beekeepers and old something to think about for the coming season.

 

[Cuckmere couple]

thanks CGF

im starting my 6th year and am hoping to finesse the demaree method as preventative swarm control this year having learnt a lot with Jenkins and Dani support last season.....

really looking forward to it

 

[Murox]

Had to chuckle at point number 4 - I have never yet managed to master even seeing queens let alone getting to grips with them. If I have an unmarked queen through supersedure or whatever she tends to stay that way until early the following season when there are less bees and more chance of me actually managing to corale her with a crown of thorns - never speared one yet!

 

[Curly green finger's]

Had to chuckle at point number 4 - I have never yet managed to master even seeing queens let alone getting to grips with them. If I have an unmarked queen through supersedure or whatever she tends to stay that way until early the following season when there are less bees and more chance of me actually managing to corale her with a crown of thorns - never speared one yet!

Figure of words on my part as usual my friend.
And your giving advice straight away and talking about marking queens when a colony is smaller in spring, I also agree that it's not easy finding a queen anytime.

 

[StephenT]

Coming up to the end of my third year and was planning to Demaree a couple of hives last year but they beat me and started swarming preps by the end of March. Will try and be more diligent this year allowing early space and Demaree one or two middle of March weather dependent. They’re on double brood and so can also implement some of the Wally Shaw techniques in swarm control around box\comb management and brood relocation. Also need to focus more on ensuring I have good queens and not being sentimental about disposing and replacing them if need be.

 

[Cuckmere couple]

Coming up to the end of my third year and was planning to Demaree a couple of hives last year but they beat me and started swarming preps by the end of March. Will try and be more diligent this year allowing early space and Demaree one or two middle of March weather dependent. They’re on double brood and so can also implement some of the Wally Shaw techniques in swarm control around box\comb management and brood relocation. Also need to focus more on ensuring I have good queens and not being sentimental about disposing and replacing them if need be.

or rather, brood nest dependant....JBM etc will advise to demaree when on 8+ frames BIA i think.....

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

or rather, brood nest dependant....JBM etc will advise to demaree when on 8+ frames BIA i think.....

seven to eight frames usually, but sometimes you just get a feel for when the time is right.

 

[Erichalfbee]

seven to eight frames usually, but sometimes you just get a feel for when the time is right.

By which time you have a super on already
And some years you have to be pretty quick. If they are building fast and the weather is set to be good for a while with good forage then better early than late

 

[Cuckmere couple]

i ended up swapping empties from top with eggs from bottom quite frequently as they were filling the UBB frames with nectar once emerged and didnt want nectar bound frames going into LBB and reducing space for Q to lay

one would hope they move the nectar to allow laying but didnt want to take risk

not sure ive got that bit right and prob over thinking it

(i can anticipate Dani and JBM groaning from here as they prepare for another season of daft questions)

thanks as ever though...v helpful

 

[Erichalfbee]

i ended up swapping empties from top with eggs from bottom quite frequently as they were filling the UBB frames with nectar once emerged and didnt want nectar bound frames going into LBB and reducing space for Q to lay

one would hope they move the nectar to allow laying but didnt want to take risk

not sure ive got that bit right and prob over thinking it

(i can anticipate Dani and JBM groaning from here as they prepare for another season of daft questions)

thanks as ever though...v helpful

Heavens don't worry...
I've done the same. The bees will naturally put the nectar in the brood if there's room but hopefully they move it up in the night. When they don't is when you start tearing your hair out. If that happens try putting an empty drawn super directly over the bottom brood. I had a colony that wouldn't even then but they did when I took the QX off. They shifted the nectar and capped a whole super in a matter of days.
The one thing to remember is to do it BEFORE you find queen cells. If you've got queen cells do an AS.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

i ended up swapping empties from top with eggs from bottom quite frequently as they were filling the UBB frames with nectar once emerged

What you often get with a good flow is that the receiver bees, after taking nectar off the foragers, instead of moving it all the way up to the supers when there are more foragers waiting to offload, will just put the nectar (not honey) in the nearest available space (the lower brood box) and will then move it up top to be ripened when things have cooled down a bit in the evenings (of course we seldom see that as not many inspect at night )

 

[Do224]

By which time you have a super on already
And some years you have to be pretty quick. If they are building fast and the weather is set to be good for a while with good forage then better early than late

Can you Demaree using a couple of supers with only foundation in or would you need to use drawn comb? As a beginner I often wonder what the implications for various manipulations are when I’ve only got the option of using foundation. Presumably most new beekeepers are in the same boat

 

[Erichalfbee]

By the time your colony is strong enough and in the right place (7/8 frames of brood and a good proportion of drone brood) you would already have supered and the bees will be drawing and filling that super. Yes the second one can be foundation. Another point is it's better to Demaree with as much drawn comb in the bottom brood as possible. If you are a beginner you won't have any. So my advice for your first year is to AS another way and get some spare brood frames drawn then you can try a Demaree the following year

 

[Cuckmere couple]

By the time your colony is strong enough and in the right place (7/8 frames of brood and a good proportion of drone brood) you would already have supered and the bees will be drawing and filling that super. Yes the second one can be foundation. Another point is it's better to Demaree with as much drawn comb in the bottom brood as possible. If you are a beginner you won't have any. So my advice for your first year is to AS another way and get some spare brood frames drawn then you can try a Demaree the following year

do you usually end up rotating frames from UBB to LBB every couple of weeks?

 

[Beedogg]

I'm about to start my second season. I have three colonies and I plan to try the Demaree on at least one of them and see what happens. I've made some Demaree boards by which to separate the upper brood from the lower. The big issue is that my hives are all WBC and, whilst I have made a 'rise spacer' to provide for the upper entrance I'm not 100% convinced that it's all going to fit and be bee-tight within. I'm considering experimenting with the Demaree board in one hive but without the riser spacer and to see whether the foragers serving both broodboxes will happily use the same hive entrance. I don't see why they shouldn't. But what do I know... Any advice welcome.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I've made some Demaree boards by which to separate the upper brood from the lower. The big issue is that my hives are all WBC and, whilst I have made a 'rise spacer' to provide for the upper entrance I'm not 100% convinced that it's all going to fit

You don't need an upper entrance for a Demarree, that's just a recent 'invention' the bees will cope just as well without it as long as you continue to at least inspect the top box weekly.

 

[Erichalfbee]

do you usually end up rotating frames from UBB to LBB every couple of weeks?

Yes. That's the way I run my Demarees. You can of course just harvest the top queen cells and take the top box away but I don't. If I want to reactively AS then I nuc the queen.
I Demaree to get a big colony for the flow to come

 

[Erichalfbee]

You don't need an upper entrance for a Demarree, that's just a recent 'invention' the bees will cope just as well without it as long as you continue to at least inspect the top box weekly.

Agreed but I like to have one to let the drones out as I have a QX under the top box. Maybe I could try not having an excluder?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Agreed but I like to have one to let the drones out as I have a QX under the top box. Maybe I could try not having an excluder?

When I started using Demarree I just used a bog standard QX under the top box, no upper entrance, it never really affected the drones, as soon as you cracked the crownboard they would just thin out, never saw any distressed or dying ones.

 

[Cuckmere couple]

Yes. That's the way I run my Demarees. You can of course just harvest the top queen cells and take the top box away but I don't. If I want to reactively AS then I nuc the queen.
I Demaree to get a big colony for the flow to come

thats what i did last year and intend to again this year too

what proportion of the rolling demarees youve done in this way stay together through spring and into summer flows?

as you know i had to take mine down before the summer flows as i found QCs in the LBB eventually despite moving frames up pretty frequently